About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

[Neophyte]

The main gripe here is it was a skill all three healers already had baked into their kits now being forced into a cross role system, it was completely pointless to do so and no other role/job/whatever suffers from this.

Provoce as PLD, or Rampart or Covalecenz or Awarness or ....? No tank with an inherent stun despite PLD with Shield Bash and "stun" is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more mandatory and needed than Esuna ever was.

Must have missed all those whining tanks.

Yes, it was in the healer kits, but not on equal places.
And SCH's leeches couldn't be shifted to a level below 30, because then it's ARCANIST, which gives SMN access to the ability.

Therefore it had to become a role-based ability to give all three healers equal access at the same level. Common, it's not that hard to understand.
And it doesn't matter at all. If there is a skill you want to take instead and you are able to (because nothing to esuna) then great. If not, then take Esuna.

Why do people depict switching a role-based-skill as something ultra hard or super annoying? Better get used to it.
Or don't and just take the 5 "mandatory" (haha) skills and go on as before? Or what exactly are you missing then?

It's at least not worse, i mean now you take specific mandatory skills as cross-class (without any choice), in SB you at least have a choice and are able to overthink the mandatorieness of skills.

That's a win for everyone who kinda "thinks" when playing this game and people who like to play around with their friends in different comps. Sure, not fun for braindead dungeon spammers, but well.. idc about those, why should I? As said, they can just pick the 3-4 "mandatories" as we do it now.

[Tiva]

There are so many posts complaining about what we "lost" in the cross role system. It's really getting a bit silly, I think. Some decisions are definitely questionable... but actually before any of this info was released, all I thought cross role was going to be was taking skills we had that are considered mandatory (yes, losing skills) and putting them in there. I thought definitely the dispel, definitely surecast and swift. And some other things. I NEVER thought they were going to add a system that is this in - depth. Even designing so many new spells and reworking others. I thought, ok, we will get the cross roll thing (which would be new, but I didn't think the SKILLs would be new) and we will get some new job skills. Whoop de doo. Instead we got this entire new system with a crazy numbers of new skills. Some may be good, some may be bad. But it shows a risk in development on SEs part, something they could use more off. For the past expansion, they have been so afraid to take a risk. Now that the game is doing well I think they are getting brave and willing to take some risks. So I will take it! Anything to help shake off the stagnant design. I see people complaining so much about the cross role system.. honestly it's probably the last thing we should be complaining about right now. Energy is better focused on the job changes and skills.

ETA- also, if you are going to complain about the cross role system, we are picking esusa to complain about? jeeze. That skill is probably going to be the most left out LOL. When you need it you need it. When you don't you don't. Completely depends on the content. And there's plenty of content in the game where a dispel is "nice" but not anywhere near mandatory. Like many bosses that do a poison or something. Most of the time you can heal through it pretty easily. The only really mandatory situations are like doom where its dispel or die. Maybe SE will surprise me and add a ton of new debuff dispel mechanics in new content. We will have to wait and see, but it's still really early to complain about this.

[Aramina]

Oh you mean by how many native abilities that SE has taken away from WHM that I no longer have? Why can't I play with the new things? Blame stupid SE for making a stupid system. Bringing it to light in play is kinda the point.

Play with them when you don't need Esuna/Protect/Whatever like every other healer?

[Reivya]

What I've heard among other discussions and what makes sense to me, is that Esuna went to the role list, at least in part, to give SCH a cleanse for lower levels without also giving it to SMN.

For the role list in general, it feels to me like it's to be used as baseline set of skills a role should have, rather than a point of customization within a class like a talent tree. I'm not sure what it had been advertised as before, but that's how it seems to have been implemented at least.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

For the role list in general, it feels to me like it's to be used as baseline set of skills a role should have, rather than a point of customization within a class like a talent tree. I'm not sure what it had been advertised as before.

It was advertised exactly as such, a baseline set of skills and utilities that all roles should have access to, hence why Esuna being there was one of the most predictable things they could've done.

[Jonnycbad]

Many dungeons and primal fights dont have anything worth removing. Also, now only 1 healer needs to have it, so other healer can put on something more useful. Coordination and optimization. No more "set it and forget it" mentality. Even DPS will need to decide who should take stun, who should take goad, and who should take Feint.

[TaleraRistain]

Anything that's currently esunable is also avoidable

Hollow Deathgaze says hi

And yes, this choice was silly. Just lower Leeches to 18. We all already had cleanse natively so we're all losing out on having to take it back through cross-role. Especially in comparison to other roles where the cross-role abilities are nice boosts or really do streamline some things, but don't strip the base Job of what they had. I'm rather looking forward to the changes with brd, for instance. Brd still has their songs and they're not only useful now, they don't punish the brd. A couple of things they could do are now cross-role so with the new system they end up with a net benefit. But healers end up with a net loss, and some more than others.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Hollow Deathgaze says hi

1 instance in over dozens of other similar instances means nothing. I also already acknowledged that one in a previous post.

[technole]

Turn 7 Savage, Venomous Tail - 4 people at the same time get the debuff for death, and has to be dispelled in seconds. This is the only one in the game where it was pretty much a two healer mechanic (each healer would cleanse two. one works from bottom, other from top).

Alexander Savage A3S, Throttle. - 2 people, 8 seconds until they die. Happens twice. Although one healer can control all of this.

Hopefully they will bring back something similar to the the T7S situation someday, sort of enforce both healers to have it. Or have Selene out.

[Fernosaur]

You don't have Esuna, Leeches, and Exalted Detriment on the same hotbar, they are used by different jobs. Combining them does nothing for button bloat. I already have all three in the same hotbar position for muscle memory reasons. I'm not going to gain any hotbar space because I'm never going to move esuna from that spot, even if I do happen to unequip it it'll just be there but grayed out.

It does reduce button bloat, since if you go into a fight that doesn't need Esuna at all, you can instead change that skill in your hotbar to the other Role Skill you're bringing. If you decide not to use the same slot in your hotbars and leave Esuna greyed out, then that's your choice and yours alone. Other players might just change it and have one button freed up.

And about the need to change your role skills per instance... SCHs already do this by weaving Blizzard II for dungeons and Stoneskin/something else for important or more difficult raids.

I don't see why there are so many healers up in arms about this...

If you weren't forced to take Esuna, what would you take in its stead? It's not like the skills are super varied and important in general:

We have Swiftcast, Protect (debatable), Esuna, Lucid Dreaming and Cleric Stance/Largesse as a good set for any kind of Duty Finder run. The rest (E4E, Break, Surecast and Rescue) are mostly situational to be considered universal Duty Finder picks, and will likely only see use in more controlled environments in which you can communicate much more with the other healer. A special case can be made about E4E for Scholars because of how it interacts with Deployment Tactics, and even then, a deployed E4E is hardly ever worth it in dungeons because it's only activated by physical attacks. which only the tank will ever get.

After the change to Cleric Stance, I'd say neither E4E or Largesse are even necessary at all for any dungeon. The only reason I'd ever use E4E or the healing buff skills was to buff Regen or Asp Benefic so that I could be in Cleric Stance for much longer, but with the ability to freely weave in instant abilities or heals in-between DPSing, and how the changes affect skills like Assize, Earthly Star and Excogitation, Largesse is largely pointless for dungeons. I have yet to see a dungeon in which the healing potency buff is absolutely necessary to clear it. Same thing goes for 24-man raids, really. The only times I have absolutely needed the healing+ buff in 24-mans have been when the other healer either DCs or spends the entire fight dead and I end up solo healing things like Forgall's Hell Wind or Scatach's ultimate.

Also, if you don't DPS as a healer and are worried about needing Largesse or E4E, then lol.