Boycotting Warrior 4.0 (Let's do it!)

[aleph_null]

How can it be "their weakness" ? If a SAM requires much more tank stance than any other DPS, it means their also do much more damage, resulting in faster kills.

Because their dps comes at the cost of someone else's? I'm not saying sam's necessarily bad because of it. If the tanks' dps loss are so minor compared to their personal huge dps gain compared to other melees then sam might be in the optimal group composition.

It's the same way I'd consider drk's weakness in a7s being their lack of physical mitigation, which may cost healers' dps unless you're skipping a lot of things, but in the end their higher dps prevailed over pld's superior physical mitigation in speedkills, since you can skip a lot of things and the lack of physical mitigation doesn't become a big problem.

[Reynhart]

If the tanks' dps loss are so minor compared to their personal huge dps gain compared to other melees then sam might be in the optimal group composition.

We can't have actual proof before the actual release, but I'm pretty sure that's what will happen. That's why, as a tank, I'm perfectly OK to stay more in tank stance if it allows the group to attain its optimal DPS. That's why I said that, for a tank, optimizing its DPS is not the same as being optimal, since you need to also consider the other members.

[aleph_null]

We can't have actual proof before the actual release, but I'm pretty sure that's what will happen. That's why, as a tank, I'm perfectly OK to stay more in tank stance if it allows the group to attain its optimal DPS. That's why I said that, for a tank, optimizing its DPS is not the same as being optimal, since you need to also consider the other members.

Well in this case we're all assuming things. The thing is that current meta comp is really good because it allows everyone in the group to perform optimally on an individual level, since the "selfish" dps jobs (casters, mnk) don't do well enough above the non-selfish jobs to justify their "weaknesses" (lack of raid dps buffs, mnk's lack of aggro control, blm's lack of mobility, etc). Even if the dps loss of the tank is smaller than the dps gain sam brings, we will still need to look at the bigger picture, including raid buffs and encounter designs. For now your guess is as good as mine.

[Reynhart]

it allows everyone in the group to perform optimally on an individual level

Yes, but I still think that the "individual level" of tanks needs to balances enmity management, mitigation and DPS. Too often I feel like people are solely focusing on DPS.

For example, people are already considering The Blackest Night to be garbage because you "waste" MP on something else than Dark Arts...