Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Feidam]

And here is an excerpt from another recent interview that should clarify the answer.

Yoshida: By now, I think a feeling has developed that healers have to participate in DPSing in instanced dungeons. Even if it's just a silent pressure, it is there. Because of that feeling, there were some players who may have felt anxious about joining as a healer. For someone like me who isn't focused about clear time, I'm fine as long as we can clear it. And I'll try to take things more slowly if I see someone who might be new. However, it's been getting more and more difficult for healers, which I'm sorry about. On my personal account, I play all the roles, and I like to have the feeling that I can play through instanced dungeons on my favorite role.

Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)

F: I see.

Yoshida: That said, sometimes when I'm participating in instanced dungeons, I'll queue as tank or healer because the matchmaking is so fast, but in the case of healer, although attacking itself isn't hard, I feel that the stance switching narrows the field of players who are interested in healing. When looking at the data, even though many players have healers at the appropriate job level, they won't be participating as healer. When considering the reasons for this, it seems that there are two main ones - it's too much work, and being asked to DPS.

F: There are many who feel that way.

Yoshida: So we decided to calculate healers' attack magic potency based on MND. Since you no longer need Cleric Stance, you can Holy whenever you feel like it. After stunning the enemies with Swiftcast Holy, you can then catch up with heals. With this increased level of comfort, the number of people participating in instanced dungeons as healer will definitely go up.

[Cynfael]

Yoshida snippets.

While I maintain that asking healers not to twiddle their thumbs shouldn't be viewed as excessively imposing, I think that Yoshi is taking the correct position in standing outside the fray. It's generally best for the game that more players actively play more roles; we can only hope that they choose of their own accord to play them well.

More on the original topic, I'm looking forward to seeing what changes await us at the launch of 4.0 since we know the dev team has continued to work on WHM (and assumedly other) mechanics since April. I don't think there's much more to say on the media release build at this point, so I'm just waiting for launch.

[Feidam]

While I maintain that asking healers not to twiddle their thumbs shouldn't be viewed as excessively imposing, I think that Yoshi is taking the correct position in standing outside the fray. It's generally best for the game that more players actively play more roles; we can only hope that they choose of their own accord to play them well.

More on the original topic, I'm looking forward to seeing what changes await us at the launch of 4.0 since we know the dev team has continued to work on WHM (and assumedly other) mechanics since April. I don't think there's much more to say on the media release build at this point, so I'm just waiting for launch.

I too am curious as to what ultimately happens. I usually play scholar as my healer i like shields and dots. Whm never interested me much felt boring. Was hoping the expansion would bring good things since i love the elemental aesthetic the whm has with the holy and healing.

Also I think healer should throw some dps spells too, however my opinion shouldn't be what drives someone else. They could just not be comfortable throwing dps with their skill level or anxiety. It's not my place to tell them to play another class especially if it is casual content. However, in statics or party finder groups we can set whatever standards we want. The game has all skill levels and types. That is just my opinion of course.

[OcieKo]

Yoshida Interview excerpt

Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)

I get the feeling, people aren't connecting with the point of this line. Pretty sure by "first clear" he means week 1-3 of raids where your gear is literally below the design of running the raid smoothly. Which after a few weeks of tome and turn in farming, a groups DPS should be on par with the expected tank sticking to mitigation, healer to healing, DPS to DPS. But hes still acknowledging that day 1 of savage, its going to be tightroping the dps check that way. So that extra bit of healer dps can make it easier to be on the far side of it. But after its in full swing, its just clear speed not wipe or win. World/Data Center/Server firsts, not "newbie" firsts.

sorry i was thinking of something else, just went and looked at the newest tooltip or whatever, it's a very short CD

trying to think what was 35s, but looking...i just can't figure it out now. maybe it was on another class i'm looking into the tooltips about...

Thanks for finding the tooltip. Yep this makes it a bit easier to use at a decent time rather than blow it right away unlike the 35s misassociation. Doesnt really change the acquisition timer, but makes it easier to use. 7 more days til the fog of war clears... Either way its CD is still a min of 30s since its about the fastest you can flip in cards.

[Saraphin]

I get the feeling, people aren't connecting with the point of this line. Pretty sure by "first clear" he means week 1-3 of raids where your gear is literally below the design of running the raid smoothly. Which after a few weeks of tome and turn in farming, a groups DPS should be on par with the expected tank sticking to mitigation, healer to healing, DPS to DPS. But hes still acknowledging that day 1 of savage, its going to be tightroping the dps check that way. So that extra bit of healer dps can make it easier to be on the far side of it. But after its in full swing, its just clear speed not wipe or win. World/Data Center/Server firsts, not "newbie" firsts.



Thanks for finding the tooltip. Yep this makes it a bit easier to use at a decent time rather than blow it right away unlike the 35s misassociation. Doesnt really change the acquisition timer, but makes it easier to use. 7 more days til the fog of war clears... Either way its CD is still a min of 30s since its about the fastest you can flip in cards.

Yeah, i'm burning on fumes from doing an addition to my actual house. i know some job has a new 35s timer...but for the life of me, too tired to really associate it.

this does however, put a lot of power in the AST hands (not that i'm against Jobs having unique things...but...this seems a bit too much. every draw they can have a burst of DPS or some healing: ie Tank busters) but...i don't think this should come at the costs of the players of WHMs and the players of SCHs to an extent..

I know, realistically, it's going to be used 2 times a minute, but it just...seems a bit much. a bit Shiny new Toy that Makes it so there are no bad cards but can all be really good cards and yes, i'm aware that ALL cards can have some use, but with Arrow and...something else (again wiped out tired right now) being now given an auto spread...it's looking more like they're getting a lot more buffs than they need at this point.

[OcieKo]

i know some job has a new 35s timer...but for the life of me, too tired to really associate it.

this does however, put a lot of power in the AST hands (not that i'm against Jobs having unique things...but...this seems a bit too much. every draw they can have a burst of DPS or some healing: ie Tank busters) but...i don't think this should come at the costs of the players of WHMs and the players of SCHs to an extent..

I know, realistically, it's going to be used 2 times a minute, but it just...seems a bit much. a bit Shiny new Toy that Makes it so there are no bad cards but can all be really good cards and yes, i'm aware that ALL cards can have some use, but with Arrow and...something else being now given an auto spread...it's looking more like they're getting a lot more buffs than they need at this point.

Im still awaiting something more concrete on the base aoe card effects, tho i agree its rediculous if its true. Tho part of getting 2 chances of lord lady per minute, it also means were failing to set up any buff utility for 1 minute. Either way this technically pans out weaker than what I wanted to fix the 2 cds for no gain issue, which was control over Royal Roads activation, but seems interesting, so next week ill play with and make an opinion on it. Unlike some people here i wont complain about a layer of RNG and having to use single target heals, or complain that being able to use my CDs more often is undesirable. Now we just need a 25% RNG Mechanic on AST and well have a full set from out of 2 to out of 6. (Draw 1/6, Redraw 1/5, Royal Road 1/3, Minor Arcana 1/2, awaiting 1/4).

There never have been bad cards, just more expensive to use ones. In comparison to WHM like this forum is about, itd be like having to click off Presence of Mind intentionally so you could use Asylum earlier. Tho in our case we usually throw away defense, power replenishment, cooldowns, and speed just to give people what they want...
Sometimes i think AST would be more fun without royal road. Just spread and draw. One card to save for the right moment, one to put in the best spot now, this later point is near dead in current AST play. I like royal road and all, but it feels like it limits my choices more often than not. Don't get to use nearly enough Enhanced Boles, Extended Arrows, or Expanded Ewer/Spire, its always wtf wheres my balance, never oh sweet thanks for the TP... My crappy DPS Goadarai and Battery Likened Mage to the rescue (crappy DPS, because I personally suck at DPS, I OT and Heal for a reason). Also BLM acronym usage win, and yes I seriously plan on mastering the art of giving out MP/TP on the kings of Damage Per Hit type DPS jobs, cause I'll probably never get a pure support in games again.

[CaeliaCat]

I feel like this thread is being continuously derailed by AST apologists and attention seekers... many of whom don't have WHM at 60 (looking at you, Highlights) or haven't bothered playing the job outside of 4-person dungeons since they main a tank or something.

The bottom line: WHM needs some form raid utility to compete with AST and SCH in endgame content.

Take your pick! Lots of great suggestions in this thread.

-Direct hit buff for the party
-Haste
-Better shields (Graniteskin)
-Target defense down (Dia)
-Reraise
-Raise II (no weakness)

Honestly, just one single place where WHM could shine would mean a world of difference, even with a clunky, shoehorned lily system.

[OcieKo]

I feel like this thread is being continuously derailed by AST apologists and attention seekers... many of whom don't have WHM at 60 (looking at you, Highlights) or haven't bothered playing the job outside of 4-person dungeons since they main a tank or something.

I guessing I'm highlights. Ill have my 2nd 60 WHM this week. Unfortunately the forums only allow you to register 3 characters, so the 3 with multiple jobs are listed, i have 7 that have completed at least 3.0, one has NOTHING BUT a WHM on it. Yep, I'm that rare breed of player who has alts for more than just mules. If it helps PLD is my favorite tank, have 2 of those at 60 as well, prefer to OT, picking up adds and covering for the team (Divine Veil, Passage of Arms, and a heal /drool). 2 60 DRGs, BLMs, and CRPs as well, 1 of everything else at 60.

My constant co-healer plays SCH/WHM and usually covers most of the healing necessary, while I cover most of the support like, Cleanse, Rez, mechanics reminders, MP management, random target mechanic recovery like prey, or DPS. How she does it on SCH and sometimes Noct AST and make it looks easy, who knows, I prefer WHM/Diurnal AST for primarily taking over healing. And were not big fans of running D AST/N AST, not as fun and we boil down into having to flip roles, I do bulk she does spot, which quite frankly, were better the other way around.

Edit: my bad just checked, it 3 jobs per character, so Gidget is listed when looking at my profile. Ociela's should hit 59 tomorrow (later today) and 60 Saturday.
For the future, don't forget to use the resources you have available to verify things.

[Ceasaria]

Take your pick! Lots of great suggestions in this thread.

-Direct hit buff for the party
-Haste
-Better shields (Graniteskin)
-Target defense down (Dia)
-Reraise
-Raise II (no weakness)

Honestly, just one single place where WHM could shine would mean a world of difference, even with a clunky, shoehorned lily system.

Shield is already a good part of Scholar and Astro.
I would choose something new that other healers don't have.
To reinforce the pure healer side of WHM, I would like to see an upgrade of Raise.

[Cynfael]

To reinforce the pure healer side of WHM, I would like to see an upgrade of Raise.

I agree as long as it comes in the company of additional fun, useful abilities. It would be unfortunate if WHM's niche were defined as being the best healer to have around when your party is terrible and dies too much.

On the other hand, more powerful or preemptive resurrection spells could be amazing in raid progression.