DRK needs a revision

[Kaedan]

They are purposefully making it more of a hassle to "stance dance" because stance dancing was never an intended gameplay mechanic for DRK. Hell, that's why they put it on the GCD and added an unattractive MP cost to Grit in the first place.

That's not to say that they don't expect you to drop out of Grit for certain times or mechanics while tanking... but that's a far cry from stance dancing.

[bswpayton]

They are purposefully making it more of a hassle to "stance dance" because stance dancing was never an intended gameplay mechanic for DRK. Hell, that's why they put it on the GCD and added an unattractive MP cost to Grit in the first place.

That's not to say that they don't expect you to drop out of Grit for certain times or mechanics while tanking... but that's a far cry from stance dancing.

the devs just gona have to get over like what they expect people to do and let people just play and enjoy the game.

[rjspencer4]

the devs just gona have to get over like what they expect people to do and let people just play and enjoy the game.

Now why can't the players do the same?

[WolfKid]

At least give us Scourge back SE. For the love of Hydaelyn! It was perfect.

In order to give Scourge back, you're gonna have to convince them to give other jobs their one button dot back

[Jandor]

True. At least with warrior it's just a reskin of the stack system, and tracking a number would be more practical than counting 10 dots (especially since with the new lv 70 skill we'll have "half" stacks too).

Yeah, it makes sense for WAR, it makes sense for most jobs to be fair. It's just very disappointing that the most obviously tacked on ones belong to tanks and healers, especially after we were told we're not getting new tanks and healers because the current ones are getting special attention.

2 years and the best they could do was oath gauge and blood gauge, gauges that interact with less than half a dozen abilities across both jobs.

[Xenosan]

..

Ya, and when they first mentioned the UI additions way back, they explicitly mentioned Dark Knight and how their UI will help visualize Darkside. Huh

What they meant to say was they're wiping out DS management entirely and enjoy this 2-stack resource for redundant GCD attacks.

[Lyth]

Paladin has had shield swipe as a counter from block since 2.0. They just moved it off the GCD later. Monk also had lolHaymaker off of evades. I'd hardly call this a signature ability of Dark Knight outside of the debuff it placed. You're better off talking about Low Blow and its reset trait for that, I think.

Shield Swipe had some identity issues. In 2.0 it was a GCD pacification move requiring a block proc, and had more in common with PLD's interrupt moves (Stun, Silence). Because higher level mobs were immune, it eventually found a niche as a TP conservation tool. In 3.0 the addition of Goring and RA made Swipe a dps loss, and it functioned as a low TP enmity tool until they made it similar to Reprisal in 3.1. They probably could have skipped a few steps in this process, but Reprisal's success was the inspiration that made the skill what it is today. Even if there weren't any utility effects attached, Reprisal and Shield Swipe would still both feel incredibly satisfying to press.

If PLD's aesthetic is about shielding your allies from harm, DRK is about seeking retribution. We're more likely to break an opponent's arm to soften an incoming blow, instead of blocking the hit. You could replace pretty much any of the old parry proc requirements with "on taking damage" and you'd be thematically accurate. Blood Price is pretty good in this regard, although I do think that there was a missed opportunity in not being able to apply the effect to another player, so that you can let their pain fuel your rage. Edgy. I just want to see more of DRK's toolkit go this route. TBN is definitely a step in this direction, and it's a good one.

With that said, while I have a higher opinion of TBN than you (it basically looks good for dealing with stuff like tank busters, a7s lightning beams, and all sorts of other wacky single target stuff during progression), I do agree that Dark Mind is in a really weird place. I could see it being 30% without DA, and DA turning it into a group 10~15% or so. Cooldown is probably too short for that, though. Either that or give it some weird synergy effect with your team's spell casters (you gain MP when they cast? idk). Or they could have DADM max out the blood gauge when you take magic damage. Something like that.

I hadn't considered situations like Sizzlebeam, to be honest. It looks fantastic for progression, at the very least. I'm just worried about situations in which it either turns into a spammable infuriate (which devalues the resource management aspect), or where it sees little to no use as OT because it's considered a dps loss. It's actually the coolest tank ability that I've seen this expansion, so I have high hopes for it.

[Brannigan]

I hadn't considered situations like Sizzlebeam, to be honest. It looks fantastic for progression, at the very least. I'm just worried about situations in which it either turns into a spammable infuriate (which devalues the resource management aspect), or where it sees little to no use as OT because it's considered a dps loss. It's actually the coolest tank ability that I've seen this expansion, so I have high hopes for it.

Something to consider is that I've heard (so this might be completely wrong) that the TBN shield has to actually be fully consumed in order to get the blood gauge, and it only lasts a few seconds. The job actions trailer seems to support this too. In HW at least there were a lot of situations where a MT might not take even 10% of a DRK's HP from just autos over 5 seconds, especially if things like Adlo get priority over it. So, it might not be viable to just spam it for blood. As someone who played a lot of paladin after progression (usually switched to DRK whenever we hit a progression roadblock) with a couple of reckless players, I got to use a lot of Clemency, so the "save someone's ass" aspect of TBN looks really cool.

I mostly see it being used for tank busters/mini busters, though. Same thing with Intervention. I don't expect MTs to be in tank stance any more than they were for 3.x, so every little bit of extra team mitigation can help against nasty stuff like Flarethrower, Double Rocket Punch, Divine Spear, etc.

[Reynhart]

In HW at least there were a lot of situations where a MT might not take even 10% of a DRK's HP from just autos over 5 seconds, especially if things like Adlo get priority over it.

But, this 20%HP shield can help survive a tankbuster without your tank stance.

Frankly, the more I think of it, the more I believe that SE realized that tanks do love to drop their stance (Enmity management for DPS, PLD being able to charge its oath gauge faster in SwO for more Sheltron, etc...)

[Ultimatecalibur]

But, this 20%HP shield can help survive a tankbuster without your tank stance.

But you might need to stay in tank stance a lot more come SB.

Frankly, the more I think of it, the more I believe that SE realized that tanks do love to drop their stance (Enmity management for DPS, PLD being able to charge its oath gauge faster in SwO for more Sheltron, etc...)

Most of the changes look to me seem to be trying to push tanks away from tanking in dps stance.Tanks are losing a lot of AP relative to dps. Enmity management for most healers/dps has not really changed while potencies have increased.

The faster charge in SwO is likely for the ability to throw out more Interventions when OTing. ShO might actually be faster charging when you are actually getting beaten on during a fight.