Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[TheRealMadruck]

I thank you for letting us know about this. I play a more passive healing role and only DPS where I feel like we are lacking as the white mage of the party usually. That being said it is a combination of because healers are "healers" not DPS and also a bit of having to keep swapping to cleric stance. I have had instances of where I turn it on and then someone decides to not avoid an AoE or the boss crit the tank so I need to go back to heal but I can't since cleric stance is still on cooldown. Now with SB that won't be an issue anymore but I get the feeling I will still be in the habit of avoiding it when it isn't necessary. Which in this case thanks to Yoshi-P, won't ever be necessary. I shall give you no hate for I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

Yet again, you may disagree.....but that is your opinion....nothing more. Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

[Shurrikhan]

Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.
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When I heal I expect myself to be active and to work towards achieving the shortest possible clear (keeping in mind where more than minimal healing may allow increased DPS from others, and where deaths are of course a massive blow to raid DPS). Anything less would be a double-standard. I would not allow my tanks not to use cooldowns, or to spam Flash, or my DPS not to dodge or to simply stop attacking. Why in the hell would I let myself not make use of my every global? Best use of each global may come with practice, but with a design that gives so much opportunity to DPS, or inversely so little opportunity to heal, why would I neglect half my potential output?

If a director is that of touch with his own designs, then so be it. Those who ignore him will simply perform better than those who can take that seriously.

Now, if SB had actually offered other means of making use of downtime, such as globals spent on support (derivative DPS) instead of direct attacks, this would hold water. But there are none. Every single support function is an oGCD, generally without any shared resource cost.

[Neophyte]

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.

This.

FF14 is a multiplayer game. "How to play" is decided by game design.

Would anyone not shoot with a medic in Call of Duty, if the producer or director says "Medics are intended to mostly heal, using your gun is optional" or would anyone not say "Well... stupid design to give them a gun and enough time to use it"?

[TheRealMadruck]

This.

FF14 is a multiplayer game. "How to play" is decided by game design.

Would anyone not shoot with a medic in Call of Duty, if the producer or director says "Medics are intended to mostly heal, using your gun is optional" or would anyone not say "Well... stupid design to give them a gun and enough time to use it"?

Yet again both of these points are mute. A healer heals...a tank tanks and a DPS is to DPS. Anything above that in your opinion, NOTHING ELSE! FF14 has a very specific way it was designed.....even if you want to ignore the facts about it. That is all that needs to be said...NEXT!

[Neophyte]

Yet again both of these points are mute. A healer heals...a tank tanks and a DPS is to DPS. Anything above that in your opinion, NOTHING ELSE! FF14 has a very specific way it was designed.....even if you want to ignore the facts about it. That is all that needs to be said...NEXT!

All what matters is that people can be kicked out of every party finder group as soon as the party creator wants it. It's intended and designed that way (and you can't report someone kicking you out of group. Party creator is even allowed to say "play job X or you have to go".).

How much does Yoshi-P's opinion count here?

[TheRealMadruck]

All what matters is that people can be kicked out of every party finder group as soon as the party creator wants it. It's intended and designed that way (and you can't report someone kicking you out of group. Party creator is even allowed to say "play job X or you have to go".).

How much does Yoshi-P's opinion count here?

I guess not much according to you since he is only the Game Director and final decision maker....but whatever right.

[Neophyte]

I guess not much according to you since he is only the Game Director and final decision maker....but whatever right.

His decisionmaking ends when the game (and it's inherent rules) are released. If he wants the game to be played in a different way, he has to change the game and not the community.

Are you kidding? That's like a fighting game with a character who can spam one attack and mostly insta-win with it and the Producer saying "Well, players are not supposed to do that.".

The game devs have to react with fixes and adjustments to the game to face the way players play and not the other way round.

[Felis]

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.[/B]

But it is. Battles are balanced around healer's not doing dmg. That is the design. It is not only intended, but also executed.
Look how easy a dungeon become the moment a healer do dmg for that the dungeon was not balanced.

Using spells as a dps is optionnal 'cause i can smash mobs with my book.
Dps as a tank is optional since i can spam flash to hold aggro.

Having a brain activity on this forum is optionnal too apparently.

Doing heal spells as a DPS is optional.
Doing dmg spell/skills as a DPS is required

Doing dmg spells as a healer is optional
Doing healing spell as a healer is required

[Welsper59]

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.

Man... even though I end up reading a lot of Trump related news almost daily, this has got to be among the most illogical perspectives outside of that. Design is not a result. Design is synonymous with intent, in this context. Are you seriously separating the two? You seem to be literally arguing that design is a variable... that when they DESIGN a game, that means devs are leaving it up to random chance that the game even balances itself out, as though anything devs do is not intentional... like randomly slamming their face on their keyboard and claiming "I MADE A GAME!" Are you serious? I think the fact people agree with this sentiment is saying a lot about the mental state of people here.

It's not redundant to say "the result of a design", as in the result of their design of the game is that healers have the option to DPS. The result of the design of the game mandates healer DPS when players do content before the devs intend them to do it. For anyone unclear on that bolded part, I'm referring to occasions such as progression raiding, where you aren't going to wait until you are geared in new tiers (perhaps through tomes), as was intended by design. Anything before that is optional, hence why Yoshi-P repeatedly states healer DPS is never part of their expectations when it comes to clearing content.

I, as well as many others (you included, it would seem), heavily encourage the idea of healers helping to DPS, but that's pretty much where our agreements end. I see the difference between optional and mandatory in this context, whereas many others only see mandatory. Logically, I'm fairly certain my outlook is the only one not driven by some made up assumption and total denial of fact (facts which have been repeatedly stated and clarified by situation by the director/producer himself). There is "optimal" which could be mistakenly seen when one reads "optional", since there's the "opti" part, but they mean different things that still relate to this situation. Maybe that's the confusion... people don't read "optional", because they're reading it as "optimal", as though Yoshi-P and people like myself are telling others that there is no optimal way to play.

[Gr1mwolf]

Yet again, you may disagree.....but that is your opinion....nothing more. Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

You can't just refute people by saying "Nuh uh, the developer said so!" And ignore any points people try to make. The fact is that players are the ones in control of this issue you have, and bringing daddy into the conversation won't force anyone's hand.