Red Mage looks Incomplete

[Claire_Pendragon]

Seriously, I too played RDM in FFXI, I liked it, I had a great time, it was the only job that I was happy playing really, but ever since then I've always hoped that XIV's RDM, if they'd ever add one, would look nothing like the disaster it was in FFXI. I don't care whatever exploit people could pull off with /nin, I don't care what you were able to solo, it simply was just nowhere as fun to play as XIV's incarnation looks. It seems to have an interesting rotation and every single one of its animation has a character that was almost absent in FFXI beside the AF.

But in all fairness, there actually was a way for RDM to nuke, heal, buff, debuff, and melee in XI, and actually be effective in all levels of content. (it's just that everyone refused to do it, until the end of the Lv75 cap era, partly because people didnt KNOW it could do it, due to lack of proper tooltips on abilities.)

[Ageofwar]

But in all fairness, there actually was a way for RDM to nuke, heal, buff, debuff, and melee in XI, and actually be effective in all levels of content. (it's just that everyone refused to do it, until the end of the Lv75 cap era, partly because people didnt KNOW it could do it, due to lack of proper tooltips on abilities.)

Oh I knew that RDM could Melee and Nuke in ffxi it's just all I was asked to do in LS end game content was heal buff and debuff and that was it

these days I spend my time as BLU meleeing and Nuking

[Claire_Pendragon]

Oh I knew that RDM could Melee and Nuke in ffxi it's just all I was asked to do in LS end game content was heal buff and debuff and that was it

these days I spend my time as BLU meleeing and Nuking

Same here.
But what I mean is, RDM started to become the go to tank by the end of Lv75 era, as RDM had a lot of nasty debuffs, which generate a buttload of threat.
mix in self healing, and buffs, RDM can even tank at lower levels nearly as good as BLU or PLD. (with a few levels being better for certain jobs when they gain access to certain skills another lacks)

Most people didnt know this.

So given the stats we COULD see easily, RDM was best suited in the support role, and second best int he healer role.
(its 99% never good in the pure DPS role, except a few level ranges where they gain something thats potent for a short bit, then dies off a few levels later.)

So if you wanted to contribute damage, you either waited for magic bursts, which never happens in NA PTs, but did all the time in JP PTs, or you tank, as you will be in a constant state of melee. (Casting offensive magic at nearly the same rate, except for when a mob was on the way from a puller, as its a nice burst in starting threat compared to any other tank)

Tanks are always the jack of all trade roles, as they must have some range(if they lack it, then movement), some buffs, and in most MMOs have AoEs, and melee dmg. Self healing is still an acceptable mitigation when done right. (and healing/protecting/buffing others too)

problem is no one sees them as such, since they have a designated role. (And its why I like tanks, I like the jack of all trade feel tanks give)

[xbahax92]

SMN: Aetherflow, Energy Drain, Lucid Dream
BLM: Convert, Umbral Ice, Lucid Dream
RDM: Lucid Dream

Notice anything wrong?

SMN has lesser MP than RDM, Aetherflow restores now only 10% mp, energy drain has still the same potency (150) that will be around 1k MP, many skills cost between 600-[1000+] (Ruin 3)
BLM has more MP than RDM, has convert. In exchange many skills are above 1k+ MP cost

Yes, Red Mage isn't going to be like the last games, we've known that. That doesn't address issues like lack of defensive cooldowns or built-in MP management, something both classes RDM is being designed around -for this game- have. If Red Mage is the love-child of White Mage and Black Mage, why doesn't it have a single damage mitigating cooldown such as both White and Black Mage have? Or an MP generator like White Mage and Black Mage have?

Wait wait wait. People are forgetting 1 thing. The main attribute Piety will be killed. Meaning any mages wont get any higher MP than they are set by level&default. Lucid Dream will restore with a potency of 80 every 2 minutes, probably a tick around 600-800 MP . I admit it doesnt have a single skill about gaining MP back, but all MP needing skills are between a value of 360, 600 and 840. In the short trailer the Redmage has 14400 MP. He uses various skills which consume MP, but there are no skills which cost above 1000 MP, beside rez and Tether. Manasongs from BRD/MCH wont cost anything but 1 role action slot and a duration of 30s (cd 180s), so another way to gain MP (and Im sure bards will be mostlikely in every raid team).

Also not to forget you'll be using in addition TP skills. 100TP per skill. While you are using your TP skills, you gain around 200-300 MP auto-regen (and also while using spells ofc!). To be honest, until trying the job on a 4min parser, it looks okay-ish on the paper.
If you guys want to argue about long fights, well boss fights in dungeons take maybe 5-7min (Lucid dream will reset 3times in a 6min fight). A raid boss takes around 13min~, bosses sometimes disappear or are immune to damage for certain period.

[Klongol]

MP management: I quickly calculated, that even with perfect lucid dreaming use, you will depeleted in ~4 minutes. And no, you cant spam weaponskills as they cost 100 tp each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WctPkumkxI

That video is of MrHappy playing RDM for 10 straight minutes without using Lucid Dreams. His MP does slowly go down, and the video is cut, but there are clearly times when he continuously casts 2 to 3 minutes with only 1/3 of his MP.

Methinks your calculations are off - Seems like with Lucid Dreams RDM will be able keep up for extended periods of time.

[The_Shang]

Would've been funny to see RDM get a spell like Osmose, that restores a portion of MP based on damage dealt. Lucid Dreaming will have to do though and it will do its job nicely.

[Claire_Pendragon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WctPkumkxI

That video is of MrHappy playing RDM for 10 straight minutes without using Lucid Dreams. His MP does slowly go down, and the video is cut, but there are clearly times when he continuously casts 2 to 3 minutes with only 1/3 of his MP.

Methinks your calculations are off - Seems like with Lucid Dreams RDM will be able keep up for extended periods of time.

While I did watch that video before, but ill mention i havnt rewatched it to make sure.
but I did notice him drop out of MP, and then cut to a moment he's back up in MP, so he might have edited it, or Im just not remembering it correctly.

But I also agree the MP cost of RDM is ridiculously low. 360~ mp a spell is going to take a long time to bottom out. (and the proc cuts tier 2 spells down to 360~ish or something nearly as low)
and with a +2% of max MP every 3 seconds, thats almost 233 MP every GCD.

so with 14,000 mp, and spells being closer to 127mp per GCD, it will take a while to run out of MP, and when u get off 3 WSs, thats 700mp returned.
I think RDm will bottom out of MP eventually in 10+min fights, but only if they dont do good rotations, and there's no downtime/BRD/MCH.

[YokeM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WctPkumkxI

That video is of MrHappy playing RDM for 10 straight minutes without using Lucid Dreams. His MP does slowly go down, and the video is cut, but there are clearly times when he continuously casts 2 to 3 minutes with only 1/3 of his MP.

Methinks your calculations are off - Seems like with Lucid Dreams RDM will be able keep up for extended periods of time.

Yeah I actually was off. /u/cheese1773 did a better job.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...en_napkinmath/

RDM is more or less mana neutral.

But one thing for me still stands. The auto-attack cancels dualcast thing. Is there a way, to completely turn auto attacks off?

EDIT: Seems he was off too and we are back to being starved pretty fast.

[HorseBoots]

Red Mage has the ability to give out three raises in the same window it takes a healer to hardcast raise for one.

(if dualcast is up) Instant Raise -> Swiftcast -> Instant Raise -> Cast literally anything (like 2sec window) -> Instant Raise.

That's 3 raises in a window of about 6 seconds. There's the reason for RDM's lack of great MP recovery like SMN and BLM. If they were on a same level of MP regeneration as their fellow casters that would simply be just too much utility. RDM is already the best resser in the game (even when compared to actual healers.) with their ability raise a player in only 2 seconds thanks to dualcast.

Luckily, getting refresh from a physical ranged friend should be a none issue since granting that effect is a non-issue since BRD and MCH no longer suffer a DPS loss to use the new cross-classed ability. And if you have an AST in the party Ewer is now an AoE ability by default so you benefit from that refresh effect whenever the AST needs to use it.

We'll need actual playtesting to see how the MP economy works in standard play but Im 100% confident the decision to limit their personal MP regening abilities to Lucid Dream was to keep RDM from using and abusing their res.

[Reinha]

But one thing for me still stands. The auto-attack cancels dualcast thing. Is there a way, to completely turn auto attacks off?

I imagine that's what the backwards jump is for. Since the auto-attacks are melee they won't hit until you go near the boss.