Samurai Discussion

[yillin]

Makes you wonder if Hagakure will only be a dps increase if you have Meikyo Shishui ready to use and something like Hissatsu: Guren to dump Kenki immediately so you don't cap out. I assume the cap is 100 kenki.

[Yorumi]

Makes you wonder if Hagakure will only be a dps increase if you have Meikyo Shishui ready to use and something like Hissatsu: Guren to dump Kenki immediately so you don't cap out. I assume the cap is 100 kenki.

If you're at 40 kenki or below i'm pretty sure it would be a dps increase regardless. You can spend 3 sen on 720 potency. If you want to do everything you can to try to favor that you can use Kaiten to get 1080 potency out of 3 sen and 20 keniki. On the other hand the conversion to 60 keniki you could do Yaten > Enhanced enbi > Gyoten > Shinten > Shinten for a total of 1100 potency. Of course that takes a lot longer to execute than midare but I think it's probably overall better.

According to Very Merri. Kaiten does not affect DoT potencies from Higanbana. Just the initial hit. Like how life surge on drg would only crit the initial hit on chaos thrust but not the dot ticks

I'm not always good with stuff that takes varying amounts of gcds but I don't think Haganbana is ever worth applying. If kaiten doesn't affect dot ticks then Haganbana is 1060 total potency. Midare is 1080 under kaiten.

[Tsilyi]

If you're at 40 kenki or below i'm pretty sure it would be a dps increase regardless. You can spend 3 sen on 720 potency. If you want to do everything you can to try to favor that you can use Kaiten to get 1080 potency out of 3 sen and 20 keniki. On the other hand the conversion to 60 keniki you could do Yaten > Enhanced enbi > Gyoten > Shinten > Shinten for a total of 1100 potency. Of course that takes a lot longer to execute than midare but I think it's probably overall better.

I feel like you want to not yaten/gyoten, since staying in would allow you to shinten more via hagakure since you are also generating more kenki through your melee attacks after you dump into shinten. if you jump out and in you are only generating 10 kenki for enbi. but you're spending 5 less i suppose. in addition that's 1 gcd where you are generating both (i believe) 10 kenki less than you would normally and also not comboing toward your next sen.

[Yorumi]

I feel like you want to not yaten/gyoten, since staying in would allow you to shinten more via hagakure since you are also generating more kenki through your melee attacks after you dump into shinten. if you jump out and in you are only generating 10 kenki for enbi. but you're spending 5 less i suppose. in addition that's 1 gcd where you are generating both (i believe) 10 kenki less than you would normally and also not comboing toward your next sen.

I think sam is going to be fairly complicated actually. Trying to figure out maximum potency per gcd is interesting. There's the question of is it better to do a yaten > Enbi > gyoten combo or just continue to save for shinten. The yaten combo is more efficient on keniki but also doesn't build any sen. In terms of sen building midare seems to be always better than haganbana, but yukikaze is the lower potency combo and doesn't need to be refreshed as fast as you can get through the whole rotation of 3 combos. So maybe it's best to do all 3, midare, one combo, hagan, and get all 3 again for midare. Now the problem though is it's a 60 second dot and we don't want to clip it. And then there's meditate to throw into the mix which shuts off auto attack. Certainly complicated but I like that.

[Tsilyi]

Yes, Yorumi. I agree to an extent. I just wonder if it will come down to if you are yaten enbi gyoten on CD on a purely tank and spank boss, and assuming let's say for simplicity's sake that's 1 gcd lost toward your next sen, how many times would you have to do that to lose a MSG on say a 3 or 5 minute encounter or what have you. It'll be interesting to figure out. I don't know that I'll jump out and in unless it's a marked increase in dps because i feel it's better to save it for if you need it. I doubt the kenki spent in difference will matter too much. over that same course of time then, the potency would be (I think)

yaten enbi gyoten = 100 300 100
shinten hakaze shinten = 300 150 300

this is of course assuming you start with at minimum the 60 kenki from 3sen hagakure

[Remus]

snip

I think the only time you would use meditate is basically when you can't hit the boss because they are not on the map or there are no adds because you can't move while meditating if you do it cancels it and it will go on cooldown.

[Yorumi]

I think the only time you would use meditate is basically when you can't hit the boss because they are not on the map or there are no adds because you can't move while meditating if you do it cancels it and it will go on cooldown.

Boss invulnerable periods are obvious but this one is at least easier to figure out. Can you get more potency from the keniki meditate generates or 15 seconds of auto-attacks. We'll need to get in the game to see that but it'll be known quickly.

[Remus]

Boss invulnerable periods are obvious but this one is at least easier to figure out. Can you get more potency from the keniki meditate generates or 15 seconds of auto-attacks. We'll need to get in the game to see that but it'll be known quickly.

Yeah there is certain information we can't get yet. Also because people mentioned Kaiten not working on Higanbana I moved it next to Kasha instead (I couldn't think of where else I could place it). I also moved one of the Kaitens next to Guren. (edit: nevermind seems guren is ability I will change it back).

Hazake -> Jinpu -> Gekko(rear) -> Higanbana ->
Hakaze -> Shifu -> (Kaiten)Kasha(side) -> Hazake -> (Shinten)Yukikaze ->
Hazake -> Jinpu -> Gekko(rear) -> Hagakure ->
(Meikyo Shisui)Kasha(side) -> (Guren)Gekko(rear) -> Yukikaze ->
(Kaiten)Midare Setsugekka -> Hakaze -> (Shinten)Jinpu -> Gekko(rear) ->
(Shinten)Hakaze -> Shifu -> Kasha(side) -> (Shinten)Hakaze -> Yukikaze ->
(Kaiten)Midare Setsugekka

I did the calculation of how much kenki and by the end of this rotation you would have 10 remaining.

edit: The calculation for kenki will be the same but some numbers would move around.

5+5+10+5+5-20+10+5-25+10+5+5+10+60+10-20-50+10+10+5-25+5+10-25+5+5+10-25+5+10-20 = 10

Yay addition and subtraction...