We're all DDs now >.>

[Hamada]

To double daily post.

Yes the post cap (ama is hurting under it atm too)

Nah, you're leet xD



Yeah, that is why I mentioned it. Their experience in ARF wouldn't be a good indication of downtime since ARF syncs at i180 it is actually quite a bit more challenging to do a lot of DPS as a healer compared to say Gubal Library HM or Xelphatol...especially with a lower geared tank or inexperienced one not using cooldowns well etc. You just can't outgear ARF as much as some other dungeons.

I'm not too sure what the stat caps are, but it does sync to i180.

oh 180? you def need higher then 190, going by pvp thread, and that is 150, they said you need 190 pvp gear or 200 pve gear (moral effect) to cap everything. so you prob need 230 or 240 or so to cap everything there. Also good we are on the same page with that place as well, glad its not me.

[Ayer2015]

It's getting quite annoying to be honest..I thought the other complaints were tiring. But this one has been going on since..forever.

I don't expect it to ever end. People don't like being told how to play, and the others apparently feel significantly inconvenienced by "bad" players.

[magnanimousCynic]

It feels like our healing spells are just too powerful to allow a high healing throughput meta to exist.

Maybe SE could reduce our healing power across our toolkit as a whole? Or maybe lower how much Mind scales our heals, example being 100% to 80%, and move 10% into Piety, making the stat a bit more desirable. Obviously we don't want a situation where even top raiders aren't able to dps, meaning lower skill players would be unable to heal the content, but things aren't always black and white.

If I had to choose between 80%DPS+20%HPS, which is a rough estimate of now, and 10%DPS+90%HPS, I'd want somewhere around 45%DPS/55%HPS where you can't get away with a HoT and a Cure 1 every 20 seconds but you can still contribute to DPS every so often.

And I'm saying this as someone who enjoys DPS as a healer. But when I can heal the boss fights in Expert Roulette with mainly DS+Regen+Asylum, it makes me feel like my healing is just too good for how little effort I put into it.

[KisaiTenshi]

Hello thread, I see you're still growing at several pages per day.

Oh, I see. You're on the slide.

Never mind then; this makes perfect sense.

That's what I said, nothing I am going to say in this thread is going to change anyone's mind, and nothing anyone else has said is going to change the mind of anyone posting in this thread. So we're all here yelling at each other because the game balance becomes too much of a faceroll too quickly.

I love how both sides of this argument think they are right and the majority of the population agrees with them. Its relatively amusing.

That's called confirmation bias.

I... don't even.

Miste has probably been the nicest to you among us all and is a sweetheart regardless yet... even she's apparently out to get you? What's it like to be in your head I wonder; where the whole world is just mean to you for no reason? People like you fascinate me.

Thats not how "you haven't played this game enough" comes accross. I've been around this game as long as Miste has, and it's quite insulting to be told by someone "you must suck because you don't have good gear." Miste is also ON MY SERVER. She has exactly the same opportunity to play the duty finder I do, and would also know that the server is the official server of several large toxic online communities.

Stop. It's not Ad Hominem to say you have no clue ...

And you just did it yourself. Thanks for playing "who's the passive aggressive bully"

Nope. Not attacks. Just telling you the truth that experience in higher duties while being over geared as a healer matters if you are going to talk about downtime.

I've explained that your character being i180 really limits ...

The fact that you looked at my character and went off on a dismissive tangent based on the gear means you're firmly in the elitist camp.

The ilevel of the gear is the minimum that the dungeon was designed for. If you are over geared, then it's obviously going to be a faceroll. Yet some people apparently take this to mean that they only DF content with one job and all these other jobs at level 60 are just for bragging rights that for all we know were leveled on levequests or fate grinds only. It's already been stated several times that the elitist raiders are the ones harassing other players for not maximizing DPS and threatening to kick because of that "oh play style is a legitimate reason to kick" screenshot. So pardon me for trying to defend players that actually want to play the game like it was designed, not carried through content.

Perhaps some of y'all need to learn some humility and recognize that the majority of players in the game are not on the forum, nor are they on the english forum. So being rude here is not going accomplish anything.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't expect it to ever end. People don't like being told how to play, and the others apparently feel significantly inconvenienced by "bad" players.

I feel inconvenienced when players who've yet to attempt content tell me how I should play it or that their role is except from general responsibilities, largely because while the mouths may be few, the speeches are frequent, which then risks influences change to content by those who do not actually do said content.

As a less than hardcore player (no static through HW; just subbing here and there), I would expect that same annoyance from anyone who plays, has learned well, and enjoys current progression were I to suggest a nerf to it or that their strategies are somehow inferior to mine.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

It's getting quite annoying to be honest..I thought the other complaints were tiring. But this one has been going on since..forever.

True... seen quite a few hundred page threads about this lul. Kinda tempted to see if I can get this one that high.

it makes me feel like my healing is just too good for how little effort I put into it.

Yeaaah. Either remove healers or reduce their heal potency because as it is right now, everyone really is just DPS.

[Hamada]

Hello thread, I see you're still growing at several pages per day.



That's what I said, nothing I am going to say in this thread is going to change anyone's mind, and nothing anyone else has said is going to change the mind of anyone posting in this thread. So we're all here yelling at each other because the game balance becomes too much of a faceroll too quickly.



That's called confirmation bias.





Thats not how "you haven't played this game enough" comes accross. I've been around this game as long as Miste has, and it's quite insulting to be told by someone "you must suck because you don't have good gear." Miste is also ON MY SERVER. She has exactly the same opportunity to play the duty finder I do, and would also know that the server is the official server of several large toxic online communities.



And you just did it yourself. Thanks for playing "who's the passive aggressive bully"




The fact that you looked at my character and went off on a dismissive tangent based on the gear means you're firmly in the elitist camp.

The ilevel of the gear is the minimum that the dungeon was designed for. If you are over geared, then it's obviously going to be a faceroll. Yet some people apparently take this to mean that they only DF content with one job and all these other jobs at level 60 are just for bragging rights that for all we know were leveled on levequests or fate grinds only. It's already been stated several times that the elitist raiders are the ones harassing other players for not maximizing DPS and threatening to kick because of that "oh play style is a legitimate reason to kick" screenshot. So pardon me for trying to defend players that actually want to play the game like it was designed, not carried through content.

Perhaps some of y'all need to learn some humility and recognize that the majority of players in the game are not on the forum, nor are they on the english forum. So being rude here is not going accomplish anything.

READ:

Good job at ignoring all my points, ill just leave this:
https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=562
It is not a damn myth. You do realize I am a heal yes? and on my alt account is just SMN and SCH who played SCH a lot more then SMN because queue times.

The only time you need to be healer full time (and yes I was mostly healing some bad parties during trials yesterday for my relic but still had room to dps) is with REALLY bad players, DPS that can't DPS, tanks that do not know what a migration CD is while standing in fire.

This is my alt account ama with my friend. I heal, I know people that heal, it is not a myth. Even with bad parties that need more healing then necessary attention, I still help with DPS time to time. Btw even as an alt, I have more proof on my own that I do more content then you, let alone my main, 2 close friends, or some posters here like miste. I really do not understand your point or what you are trying to debate. Why are you trying to say healers having large downtime is a myth? makes no sense.

Also I think "healers only heal" come from other games, not healer should help with dps because nothing to do.

Gear does matter because you can't actually queue for any relevant content with i180 gear. Which means you have zero experience in higher dungeons like Expert Roulette. Your gear does tell me roughly how much experience you have with specific content since you don't even qualify to enter most of the level 60 content unless you are hiding behind an alt.

I have TWO accounts, my alt, ama, outgears you and seen way more content then you on both jobs (SMN and SCH) [Sorry miste using your quote for KisaiTenshi, not you , don't hurt me, ya did more then me ;p]

You have not answered any main questions. What are you playing to think healers do not have room to dps? you do realize main healers are telling you they can and they can cast 1 thing a minute, even with miste's test doing min gear in the current expert, SOMETHING YOU CAN"T DO! because you need i230 when you are i190. You can't tell healers the need to full time heal content you NEVER BEEN IN! why is this so hard to understand?

Did you watch the link at all? THAT IS THE NORM! How can you sit there say it is a myth when there is a video on it? where is video of your play?

You can't enter this:

in i190 gear, and I did this on my alt ama, who is a i270 smn and i268 sch. Even in min gear as miste pointed out, she was able dps quite a bit on the current expert. Do you understand, all current content that people are talking about requires i230+ to enter?

[Taika]

Thats not how "you haven't played this game enough" comes accross.

What people are saying is that you don't have nearly any experience of the game in it's current form. This is not a personal insult, it's a fact. You're not even able to access the majority of the content from the past 2 years.

I've been around this game as long as Miste has, and it's quite insulting to be told by someone "you must suck because you don't have good gear."

The difference between you and Miste is that she's experienced in the current content of the game while you aren't. Your experience from 1.0 or even 2.0 is not relevant to how the game is played today, her experience from having played the game in its current form obviously is. And no one is saying "you must suck because you don't have good gear", that's strawman. They're saying your gear (and your achievement history) show that you don't have access to or experience from the current game. They're not evaluating your skill based on that, but your experience.

[Kitfox]

I don't think dismissing someone's case based on their experience or gear is really the right way to go. Nobody here is an authority and most people won't stop to check each other's "credentials." And they shouldn't, arguments should stand on their own. It's possible to make a compelling case just by knowing the basic mechanics of the game and spending some time on research. It's also possible to be fairly oblivious to a number of game mechanics and optimization even with experience in Savage.

Also, I just really want to see Kisai try to refute math because I spent a whole 5 mins on it and demand to be entertained! /s

snip

[Miste]

it's quite insulting to be told by someone "you must suck because you don't have good gear."

Can you show me where I said that to you though? I'm having a hard time finding it. I don't use language like that.

All I was pointing out was like Taika & Ama tried to explain (thanks Taika & Ama for the help explaining btw) is that you just haven't been into the newer content of HW yet. Your gear is stopping you from doing the higher tiers of duties. That doesn't mean you suck. It is just a fact you've never stepped into any dungeons above Fractal/Neverreap or any of the raids above Gordias.

You need to experience everything as a WHM with your item level getting better and better to see how much more often you might get downtime and to get even more experience with the current content of the game.

Miste is also ON MY SERVER. She has exactly the same opportunity to play the duty finder I do, and would also know that the server is the official server of several large toxic online communities.

My experiences in our Data Center DF groups has been way more positive than negative. Negative experiences always happen on MMOs you can't escape it, but honestly I don't find our server to be a bad community. There are some trolls and bad apples here and there, but EVERY server on this game has that problem. I blacklist toxic people and don't associate with them so that solves that for me anyway.

The fact that you looked at my character and went off on a dismissive tangent based on the gear means you're firmly in the elitist camp.

Actually I saw the information from another poster who looked up your character and posted (in this thread or the other one I don't remember) that you were only i180 and they posted that only yesterday or day before so 1-2 days your item level probably hasn't changed much. That is where I found out you were only i180 or so.

I've never harassed or kicked a healer for not DPSing, I encourage healers to practice and learn to DPS because it can be a really fun and challenging play style and when you are working as a team generally learning how much you are capable of doing to help your team is best course of action, but that's all I do...encourage it. I also join learning parties for savage when I have time (usually on my alt) to help people get clears and I actively mentor roulette and help clears in there too and since you are on my server if you ever needed help you can ask me and I'd help you too.

If that is elitist then that seems awfully strange to me. You might have a different definition of the word than I do then?