Are you guys finally going to DPS and help your party?

[Cyrocco]

For the love of god just watch Netflix and stay off of XIV.

[Belhi]

All right. I keep seeing that assertion thrown around. Show me a source that said the developers themselves said the ONLY reason healers are given increasingly sophisticated and powerful damage spells is for solo content ONLY and were never intended to be used in party combat with a group.

Please, enlighten us.

What are you talking about?

If they actually added complexity or sophistication to healing dps rotations and spells it would actually alleviate a lot of the problems I personally have. There is nothing sophisticated about maintaining a pair of DoTs and spamming one spell over and over again. All they have done is remove the only real mechanic healer dps had. If healers are supposed to dps then make their dps rotation an integrated part of how their Job mechanics function.

[Cynfael]

If healers are supposed to dps then make their dps rotation an integrated part of how their Job mechanics function.

While I agree that healer DPS is extremely basic, I actually think that keeping it simple and flexible is a smart design choice. That's not to say that there isn't room for greater synergy between DPS and supporting actions, though, and I would like to see improvement there.

Cleric Stance itself adds very little to healer gameplay aside from being an arguable gate between the mediocre and the advanced healer. Once a player understands timing and the importance of learning fights, CS is basically a moot concern. That's why I'm indifferent to it being reworked.

[Big_Panda]

I always DPS when playing as a healer.

Now I can DPS more without worrying about effing up the CS.

[Makeda]

While I do DPS as a healer, isn't it odd?

DPS are meant to DPS. Healers are meant to heal.

Ive always wondered why we don't boot DPS from groups for not healing or tanking enough.

Are DPS so lackluster in this game that the other two roles have to pick up their slack and this is seen as normal?

I don't mind DPSing when I'm on a healer. It is NOT what I picked the role for though, and I am baffled at why I am expected to do another role's job for them in addition to my own.

[Cynfael]

Ive always wondered why we don't boot DPS from groups for not healing or tanking enough.

Simple: DPS is the ultimate goal of every party, and we don't want the role that does the most damage wasting their GCDs on unnecessary healing actions, and we certainly don't want them getting cleaved, tank-busted, or forced to abandon positionals.

Healing isn't the kind of task that needs 100% uptime, and the healer role is extremely efficient at healing if played correctly, which means crazy downtime if only healing actions are used.

[Belhi]

Simple: DPS is the ultimate goal of every party, and we don't want the role that does the most damage wasting their GCDs on unnecessary healing actions, and we certainly don't want them getting cleaved, tank-busted, or forced to abandon positionals.

Healing isn't the kind of task that needs 100% uptime, and the healer role is extremely efficient at healing if played correctly, which means crazy downtime if only healing actions are used.

Then realistically why bother with healing classes at all and instead just go with support dps with healing support options? If healers are designed around healing but spend a large portion of their time not healing then most of the Job design goes to waste.

Personally I think healing gameplay is underdeveloped in FF14 and the healing potency of spells is too high. That is the reason healers get so much down time. They have too many fire and forget spells and to few mechanics which require constant maintenance.

[Cynfael]

Then realistically why bother with healing classes at all and instead just go with support dps with healing support options? If healers are designed around healing but spend a large portion of their time not healing then most of the Job design goes to waste.

Personally I think healing gameplay is underdeveloped in FF14 and the healing potency of spells is too high. That is the reason healers get so much down time. They have too many fire and forget spells and to few mechanics which require constant maintenance.

Many games have moved away from the pure healer model. The games I remember playing with dedicated healers who couldn't so much as solo a field mob had extremely small healer populations, most of which were boxed since a live healer was necessary only for PvP and maybe the odd raid. Healers who only heal in these games are either playing whack-a-mole nonstop while everyone else takes it easy or they are bored off their asses because they barely need to heal and can't damage anything.

FFXIV at least has a viable hybrid model where healers have useful actions to perform when healing requirements are low or intermittent. Increasing the damage inflicted on players would not make the game more engaging or fun from a healing perspective since the game itself is extremely choreographed. If the mob damage output were increased to the point where healers truly needed to heal heavily and frequently, fatigue would set in; hitting Cure twice as often is not any more enjoyable than weaving it with DPS.

SE could provide further options for healers by introducing a larger variety of powerful support skills, provided that they are at least comparable in benefit to the DPS option. I do agree that there is opportunity in deepening the gameplay from a supporting role perspective.

[Belhi]

Many games have moved away from the pure healer model. The games I remember playing with dedicated healers who couldn't so much as solo a field mob had extremely small healer populations, most of which were boxed since a live healer was necessary only for PvP and maybe the odd raid. Healers who only heal in these games are either playing whack-a-mole nonstop while everyone else takes it easy or they are bored off their asses because they barely need to heal and can't damage anything.

FFXIV at least has a viable hybrid model where healers have useful actions to perform when healing requirements are low or intermittent. Increasing the damage inflicted on players would not make the game more engaging or fun from a healing perspective since the game itself is extremely choreographed. If the mob damage output were increased to the point where healers truly needed to heal heavily and frequently, fatigue would set in; hitting Cure twice as often is not any more enjoyable than weaving it with DPS.

SE could provide further options for healers by introducing a larger variety of powerful support skills, provided that they are at least comparable in benefit to the DPS option. I do agree that there is opportunity in deepening the gameplay from a supporting role perspective.

I would be happy if they chose to do that but the way they are talking about it that isn't what we are getting, with WHM at least. Ironically new healing spells is the last thing WHMs need now. How am I supposed to get excited about a new flashy heal if I have more heals than I need with the list I already have? Combined with just removing Cleric stance and its pushing WHM in the complete opposite direction to the one you are talking about.

They need their design philosophy to match their game design and currently it doesn't. No wonder they are having problems balancing healers if they haven't noticed that issue yet. It is extremely frustrating, especially after all their talk on putting extra effort into balancing tanks and healers. At least PLD seems to be heading in the right direction.

[Ashua]

If you run a static or pre formed group expecting the most of everyone's ability that is one thing but getting mad at a healer in random groups is not right. You queue with intention of pugging a run with the mindset of finishing a dungeon. As long as you are being healed in a pug expecting more is imo a drive in futility.