Are role actions a nerf?

[Rysir]

I dont see the issue at all, its a pick what you need system over the pick whats absolute best without other options system we have now.

It is easily an improvement since we actually have choice like ACTUALLY do and make loadouts for each encounter which we could have done with cross class skills if most of the cross class abilities were not trash.

This change makes the game more modern and require some thought and planning now instead of pick 5 and never touch it again which is a good thing and I would not consider it a nerf.

[Fawkes]

I dont see the issue at all, its a pick what you need system over the pick whats absolute best without other options system we have now.

It is easily an improvement since we actually have choice like ACTUALLY do and make loadouts for each encounter which we could have done with cross class skills if most of the cross class abilities were not trash.

If you're bringing esuna to every fight that needs it and not bringing it to fights that don't, you're not really the one making the choice, the battle designer is. There's no benefit to having esuna in a fight where there's nothing to cleanse so it doesn't make sense putting it in a list of optional skills, it would never be the right choice for those fights. They're only setting people up to fail and bring esuna when they don't need it or forget esuna when they do need it. The only "positive" is entirely manufactured by this new system, that you get to bring a different skill. But if this system didn't exist and you just got esuna the way you do now you would still gain the benefit of also being able to bring other skills. Even on the subject of "button bloat", if you want to swap things in and out of your hotbars as needed you can already do that. You can already take esuna off your hotbar and put something else there if you don't need it. The whole role abilities system provides zero actual benefits, only imaginary benefits to people desperate for some kind of pretend choice.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

If we're speaking on a technicality level, the only debuff that absolutely 100% needs to be cleansed by the healers, that would be doom. Every other debuff either had alternative ways of being cleansed (Keepers Paean, antidotes, spine drops, etc) or can be worked through at a minimal dps loss (Poison, Paralysis on non casters, sleep, etc). I'm pretty guilty of ignoring every debuff that isn't doom because "MUH DEEPS".

[Ama_Hamada]

If you're bringing esuna to every fight that needs it and not bringing it to fights that don't, you're not really the one making the choice, the battle designer is. There's no benefit to having esuna in a fight where there's nothing to cleanse so it doesn't make sense putting it in a list of optional skills, it would never be the rightchoice for those fights. They're only setting people up to fail and bring esuna when they don't need it or forget esuna when they do need it. The only "positive" is entirely manufactured by this new system, that you get to bring a different skill. But if this system didn't exist and you just got esuna the way you do now you would still gain the benefit of also being able to bring other skills. Even on the subject of "button bloat", if you want to swap things in and out of your hotbars as needed you can already do that. You can already take esuna off your hotbar and put something else there if you don't need it. The whole role abilities system provides zero actual benefits, only imaginary benefits to people desperate for some kind of pretend choice.

Someone gets it, as of what we know now, the role class system is bad, but they did say it was not the final version and subject to change. As said before I am sure they wanted to get some thoughts from us with the system before finalizing it. It is amusing to me see people auguring something that is a baseline ability for healers tell me it really is an "option" if that is the case, so is fire IV, why have fire IV when there are people that never use it?

If we're speaking on a technicality level, the only debuff that absolutely 100% needs to be cleansed by the healers, that would be doom. Every other debuff either had alternative ways of being cleansed (Keepers Paean, antidotes, spine drops, etc) or can be worked through at a minimal dps loss (Poison, Paralysis on non casters, sleep, etc). I'm pretty guilty of ignoring every debuff that isn't doom because "MUH DEEPS".

Again I guess we can make fire IV an option since "meh deeps" is not important. lets make cure an option, maybe make DPS spells or healing spells options and not allow people do both at the same time. Lets make it so people maxing would have to swich out spells every 20 seconds to get the maximum performance.

This sounds really off right? so does making protect, esuna, provoke not baseline.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

, so is fire IV, why have fire IV when there are people that never use it?

Fire 4 is optional in the sense that if you don't want to do high DPS, you'd never use it. Esuna doesn't have that same argument, especially in end game raids where dispellable debuffs are few and far between. Many are the times when I wished I could swap Esuna for something infinitely more useful. As of now, a rough estimate places maybe 10% of the debuffs currently in game people can remove, and of that small number, 1-2% of them are mandatory, while the remaining number won't have any appreciable impact on your dungeon run.

On another note, it's kinda funny to me to see people are defending a skill that's almost as niche as PLD's Tempered Will.

[Ama_Hamada]

Can you really not tell the difference between "optional only if you want to be bad" and "optional ANY time there isn't a critical debuff"? Well I guess you can't since you keep comparing them.

edit: If cure were a cross-role skill then THAT would be the same. But Esuna? No.

Not esuna debuffs is bad, not having esuna baseline is bad. I do not see how someone can ague otherwise. All it is going to do is cause worse DF social problems then we have currently, same with protect. I entered a level 17 guildhest above all things telling me healers need protect. (everyone with a brain knows first slot goes to cleric)

Fire 4 is optional in the sense that if you don't want to do high DPS, you'd never use it. Esuna doesn't have that same argument, especially in end game raids where dispellable debuffs are few and far between. Many are the times when I wished I could swap Esuna for something infinitely more useful. As of now, a rough estimate places maybe 10% of the debuffs currently in game people can remove, and of that small number, 1-2% of them are mandatory, while the remaining number won't have any appreciable impact on your dungeon run.

On another note, it's kinda funny to me to see people are defending a skill that's almost as niche as PLD's Tempered Will.

You can clear dungeons just spamming wide volley, does that make it s a good idea? defending bad ideas is mind bogging to me

[Aramina]

Not esuna debuffs is bad, not having esuna baseline is bad. I do not see how someone can ague otherwise. All it is going to do is cause worse DF social problems then we have currently, same with protect. I entered a level 17 guildhest above all things telling me healers need protect. (everyone with a brain knows first slot goes to cleric)



You can clear dungeons just spamming wide volley, does that make it s a good idea? defending bad ideas is mind bogging to me

Ok you are right. Everything sucks. We are all going to die a horrible death.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

defending bad ideas is mind bogging to me

So then why are you trying to defend the assertion that Esuna is a mandatory skill when for a very significant majority of the game it adds very little, nor does it refute the assertion that it's entirely extra depending on party make up. Got a bard? He can cleanse anything Esuna can and faster with Keeper's Paean. Inflicted with poison? Spend a gcd to apply a Regen, go back to dpsing, or the afflicted player uses an antidote. Both cases are resolved with no need for the healer to do anything other than dps. Do you have a counter for the use of medicines/keeper's?

[bswpayton]

So then why are you trying to defend the assertion that Esuna is a mandatory skill when for a very significant majority of the

The better question should be is esuna better the way it is now all healers have one , and if u need it u could use it. Is this better than oh now its an option if u dont have it have fun possibly wiping ur first time in a new dungeon because u didnt have a debuff for the tank. It was fine the way it was, alot of things where fine the way they where and now they come with this jacked up system we didnt even need when they could of just simply unlocked all cross class abilities and there wouldnt be one single complaint thread on the forums right now but instead its like 10 of them.

[Aramina]

, so is fire IV, why have fire IV when there are people that never use it?

Can you really not tell the difference between "optional only if you want to be bad" and "optional ANY time there isn't a critical debuff"? Well I guess you can't since you keep comparing them.

edit: If cure were a cross-role skill then THAT would be the same. But Esuna? No.