Combo Consolidation: How long before we see it in PVE?

[Dameron]

I think that combo consolidation is only a good idea if there are simply too many abilities in a rotation for a player to reasonably keep up with.

For example, I'm currently playing a Dragoon. I don't have that many abilities in my core rotation, but I have so many off GCD abilities and cooldowns that I almost have three full bars completely dedicated to just my rotation. This is managable after some practise thanks to the long global cooldown, but if I get any more abilities added to my core rotation it's going to be a real struggle to fit it all in there.

In cases where core rotations would become longer than three bars, that's where I support combo consolidation. An alternative to this problem might also be ability pruning, but this is something I heavily recommend avoiding, considering most classes already have few abilities while leveling up.

[Atmora]

snip.

You can get to the 80th percentile and harder doing Double Emp openers on bard. Trust me, most players are bad.

[Shurrikhan]

I played TERA, and I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you talking about spacebar? Spacebar combo wasn't very good, because abilities could chain into multiple things. For example, Cross Parry chains into both Blade Draw and Smoke Flanker. But it only shows the Smoke Flanker chain if Blade Draw is on cooldown.this is a post from one of the best theorycrafters in TERA and he said you should never use spacebar because it's a DPS loss.

See, that's a case in which you're trying to script appropriately for an unknown scenario in which two different abilities will always be viable and either of which may be the better choice, even if one tends to be the default choice in most conditions. In those cases, the dynamic slot may serve as a quality of life change, but it comes at cost, at least to the most tryhard players (I use that descriptor with respect). TERA in particular suffered from additional checks that delayed queuing.

But that's a lot more choice being faced than we encounter here in XIV. It wouldn't suffer from such issues because it never had that kind of freedom to begin with.

You can get to the 80th percentile and harder doing Double Emp openers on bard. Trust me, most players are bad.

With sufficient SS, Double Emp is competitive if not outright optimal. (Not the pre-pop meme version you might be thinking of though, though that isn't far behind either...)

[Jhett_Magnum]

I think it's definitely the next step depending on how well pvp handles it.

[Kyne_Lyons]

If you want to see what the game would be like with combo consolidation, level Lancer. It's basically combo consolidated for most of the early levels since you just spam 1 button (Impulse Drive).

Was that fun?

[YitharV2]

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Yeah, now that I think about it, Warrior could be simplified. There are only combos with very little choice so you would only need 3 buttons. I think that's why I had a lot more fun on Warrior in TERA because there was just so much choice and so much optimization. The skill ceiling was actually pretty high.

[Shurrikhan]

If you want to see what the game would be like with combo consolidation, level Lancer. It's basically combo consolidated for most of the early levels since you just spam 1 button (Impulse Drive).

Was that fun?

If "Impulse Drive" first stabbed twice for 180 potency, then applied piercing vuln with 230 potency, then back-bonus attacked for 250 direct and a 500-potency DoT. Sure. I don't see the difference. And that's all anyone's asked for: a one-to-one ratio between decisions possible and slots consumed to allow for them. That doesn't cause ability spam any more than as rigid rotations do already.

No one is asking to remove abilities. But once you start Impulse Drive, your options are simply: swap to FT combo instead, DoT, rebuff, or continue the combo. At Disembowel, those options are identical, although only one choice is now viable. At Chaos Thrust under BotD those options are identical, though any but one choice will shame you. You're already locked in. As such, any decision to Impulse Drive is a decision to Chaos Thrust + F&C/WT. Your combos end up one and only one decisive action each. So why not then use 2 keys for 2 actions instead of 8?

Combined, DRG has only 4 actual separate weaponskills: DoT, buff, DoT-combo+15sBotD, and DirectDmg-combo+15sBotD. Why spend 10 slots for 4 actions?

[Sonatia]

If you want to see what the game would be like with combo consolidation, level Lancer. It's basically combo consolidated for most of the early levels since you just spam 1 button (Impulse Drive).

Was that fun?

Yes, because DRG is so complex to play at 60. Getting from Heavy Thrust all the way to Full Thrust, inserting BfB, IR and LS in between, is the pinnacle of skill and excitement.

Not tedious at all.

[Shut]

I really, don't like this idea in general, even if I agree that too many skills can be a nuisance. For any classes, I NEED to be able to choose what I'm going to do next, especially in emergencies.

I'm a WAR, am I going with storm's path to reduce damage on this mob? Or should I keep storm's eye for my NIN?
I'm a NIN, should I use shadow fang to dot this mobs while I'm on another one? or should I use aeolian edge to burst this one quickly?
I'm a PLD, should I go for riot blade to do another clemency? or should I prepare another aggro combo cause I'm not sure if my other tank can handle it?

This is even more true in pvp, cause you're not doing a scripted fight and need to adapt quickly: Storm path on the bard bursting or eye on the heal? should i use one ilm punch or another combo skill? etc...
It's not rare for PLD to restart his combo after riot blade to get more MP and use more clemency, since PLD has the best supporting role in PvP.
Also, there is the problem of job identity, MNK is the best example since he doesn't have combo, but works on stances that allows more choices. Consolidate this would just kill the identity of MNK gameplay.

To finish, I think it would work only with tanks and melee class, and won't solve the amount of skills issue for other jobs:
For example, every MCH knows that you're not doing a 1-2-3 combo when you're using ammos, since MCH is all about procs management. If you have 3 ammos, you do 1-2-1 to make Slug and clean shots proc, then 3-2 to use them. Some opener also require using directly slug shots to be able to do 3 clean shots during wildfire. In PvP, if I need to prepare a burst quickly, sometimes I do 2-1 to set clean and slug ready to be able to burst quickly.
BRD doesn't even have what you can call a combo, SMN has different durations for his dots, so you can't 1-2-3 them. No need to mention healers i think.

So ofc, you could actually consolidate combos for every classes, but might as well only have job per role if they starts to look alike.
just my two cents about it, and sorry for my bad english.

[Oxmodial]

So you're asking for automated gameplay because learning a pattern is too hard. Got it.