Is not dps'ing that rare?

[Riesenscnauzer]

I'm a noob when it comes to ffxiv. I've owned the game for years, but never really played until this past month. Relatively new to the forums too, and I see a lot of posts , mostly seeming to do with the changes. And there are a ton of dps questions, almost a dead horse as it were.

The question two fold, is

#1 is what does DPS mean in the context of healing, I mean are we talking about a "holy" when applicable, and keeping relevant DOTs up? Or is their some meta that is expected where healers are to have full rotations to run while also keeping an extra eye on those in the party that need heals?


#2 Is it really that rare, or is this more of a "soapbox"moment for everyone who has that one story where all the healer did was heal, even when the tank was overgeared and both dps'ers didn't draw aggro, and stayed out of the "bad" ?

[Tsumdere]

Welcome to FFXIV!

Healer DPS means to me, doing some damaging skills while they have nothing else to do. It is not asking healers to toss their healing skills in the trash and focus only on DPS.

It is 50-50 for me. I have seen healers literally /follow the tank and go afk the entire dungeon because there is nothing to heal. I have seen healers do so much damage it puts some of the DPS to shame. It's honestly a toss up which one you will get when you DF.

The main argument is - why should the DPS and Tanks be expected to participate in 90-100% of the dungeon and perform reasonably well when healers (who have many, powerful DPS skills mind you) participate in 5-10% of the same dungeon and recieve the same rewards?

[BorisDaBlade]

Please take what you see on the forums with a grain of salt. It doesn't represent the community as a whole. It's mostly just the same people trying to change the minds of others, lol.

As for #1. It's not as much of a rotations as a healer as it is throwing out dps when there isn't any need to heal. Mostly staying active instead of sitting on your thumbs.

#2. The forum is nothing but soap box moments, lol.

[Reiryuu]

I generally have a rotation I go through during a fight; but, depending on the situation and tank, quickly adjust depending on how fast he's going down.

Generally, I'll open with Aero III and then a holy, stoneskin the tank in the interim, holy, stoneskin/aero III/ again to do the initial damage again and refresh or get mobs I may have missed with the initial shot/Assize if it's up and I'm at around 1/2 my mp pool, holy one last time (stun no longer works) and heal/stone/DoT up the remaining mobs. It works for me in most groups and there's only a few I've had to readjust to depending on the tank or whether the AoE damage of the group is terribad and I need to watch my MP as the fight goes on longer.

[Lambdafish]

You are playing ACN so I assume that you are wanting to heal as SCH. SCH is a bit different to the other two healers when it comes to DPS because you have a fairy to support your healing and DPS skills that's support your healing. Don't worry so much if you can't, but SCH has many ways to create opportunities in which they don't have to heal and people use that as a chance to do extra DPS.

General rule of thumb: you don't have to be a pro MLG high DPS healer for people to be happy with your performance, so long as you have some awareness of when your party is taking damage and when you have downtime. You should learn your toolkit and find the skills which give you downtime (regen, aspects benefic, rouse), and at least weave in some sort of DPS just so you aren't idling, because it's the idling that people notice, not your damage numbers

[Lazka]

The main argument is - why should the DPS and Tanks be expected to participate in 90-100% of the dungeon and perform reasonably well when healers (who have many, powerful DPS skills mind you) participate in 5-10% of the same dungeon and recieve the same rewards?

uh oh.. so im keeping the party alive is just a 5-10% worth for u guys? and when im DPSin im at 90-100% performance healer?
this logic fail me...

then why u need a healer in 1st place then?

[LunaFaye]

then why u need a healer in 1st place then?

Because nobody can be asked to move every 30 seconds to avoid aoe's or any other things that might nearly kill you, therefore having someone in the party, that keeps you alive and that you can blame at the end, especially if the group fails a dps check, or fully wipes is a good reason to keep/add healers to your party.

#1 is what does DPS mean in the context of healing, I mean are we talking about a "holy" when applicable, and keeping relevant DOTs up? Or is their some meta that is expected where healers are to have full rotations to run while also keeping an extra eye on those in the party that need heals?

It is normally that, if the healer has nothing else to do, because the party doesn't take any damage right that moment or anytime soon, you should be doing any kind of skills that deal damage, till the moment you're having to heal again. (this isn't a rare thing, even tho lots of people want to tell you that it never happens)

But here is were the fun part comes in, with today's community that's not good enough anymore, you're supposed to tank,dps, make coffee, bake a cake, take the dog for a walk, visit your grandmother, laundry, grocery shopping and clean your whole house while keeping everybody alive. If you miss one of these, well be happy because you'll be re running that dungeon since player A and B already initiated a vote kick. (this on the other hand is rare because nobody ain't got time for that, and that's when the players ingame and on the forums start complaining that a healer refused to dps or do their job)

Welcome back to FFXIV my friend

[Acidblood]

#1 Not sure about high-end raiding, but it mostly refers to healers throwing in some damage when there isn't any healing to do, which is mostly in high-level dungeons where everyone is over-geared. For example, on WHM, and with a decent tank, I can almost heal a dungeon on regen alone (so 1-2 abilities every ~20 seconds)*, and spend most of the rest of the time doing DPS (though MP is generally a limitation on going 'all-out' for every pull).

#2 Haven't noticed it too often, though it does happen, but I feel like the 'outrage' is more about a 'lazy' healer making each pull, and the dungeon, feel (and take) significantly longer, than it is about the frequency of the occurrence.

* Note: This is with doing damage, which not only greatly shortens the time a tank is taking damage (especially without cooldowns on), but also includes ~6 seconds of AoE Stun from Holy. Without doing damage I would actually have to do more healing ^_^

[Taika]

#1 is what does DPS mean in the context of healing, I mean are we talking about a "holy" when applicable, and keeping relevant DOTs up? Or is their some meta that is expected where healers are to have full rotations to run while also keeping an extra eye on those in the party that need heals?

Healers don't have complicated DPS rotations. Healer play in dungeon context is mostly about 1. putting regen (not available for SCH) and other buffs up on tank, 2. putting DoTs up on monsters (if SCH that's Bio II + Miasma + Bio + Miasma II and Shadowflare, for WHM it's just Aero III) / using your AoE DPS spell (Holy for WHM, Gravity for AST), and 3. when needed, hitting the tank with instant heal (Lustrate / Tetra / Essential Dignity), refreshing regen, using a heal if needed, and 4. getting back to DPS. This is it (in a simplified form) and it's not rocket science. As SCH, you won't be able to regen tank (outside Whispering Dawn when using Eos), but you can keep manually casting Embrace on tank while you're using your DPS skills.

#2 Is it really that rare, or is this more of a "soapbox"moment for everyone who has that one story where all the healer did was heal, even when the tank was overgeared and both dps'ers didn't draw aggro, and stayed out of the "bad" ?

It's not that rare to see healers who don't actively DPS. But most start DPSing at least a little when asked. The only healers people have issues with are the ones that flat out refuse without a reason and no matter what, though.

[Silverquick]

I'm a noob when it comes to ffxiv. I've owned the game for years, but never really played until this past month. Relatively new to the forums too, and I see a lot of posts , mostly seeming to do with the changes. And there are a ton of dps questions, almost a dead horse as it were.

The question two fold, is

#1 is what does DPS mean in the context of healing, I mean are we talking about a "holy" when applicable, and keeping relevant DOTs up? Or is their some meta that is expected where healers are to have full rotations to run while also keeping an extra eye on those in the party that need heals?


#2 Is it really that rare, or is this more of a "soapbox"moment for everyone who has that one story where all the healer did was heal, even when the tank was overgeared and both dps'ers didn't draw aggro, and stayed out of the "bad" ?

Its actually more rare to see a healer doing a ton of DPS... than it is not to DPS at all.

Reality here is that generally most people don't notice or care really except for some other healers pushing an agenda.

Generally though you'll probably want to throw in a nuke or two on occasion,

In the case of SCH... most is fire and forget.

You DoT something (then BANE it if multiple targets), and then let them run their course. Unlike the Summoner you don't have much to throw on top of it, so its a lot sneakier and no one can tell if you are, other than that the Mobs drop quicker, because DoTs don't show up in the combat logs only in certain parcers, you can only see them if you're standing next to the mob and watching them tick away.

Usually SCH will Galvanize the tank, and then heal him quick, then throw out some DoTs and Bane them.... or use either Broil or Ruin 2 on the Boss mob on occasion.

Its not critical really, only helpful. And most healers only do it in their spare time.

In Raid instances the damage comes in so hot and heavy that they forgo it unless the Raid DPS is so low.

But there's a catch to that. If the Raid Damage is low because they spent their time DPSing rather than healing, so a lot of DPS actually died...then it was more because they failed at their primary job of healing... rather than them failing to DPS.