Is not dps'ing that rare?

[Taika]

Yes, I agree, and this not-even-a-scholar-yet is definitely asking for advice regarding the attitude to have to enter a savage group this week.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to say. You were referring to a quote about balancing Savage content, yet now it seems you're saying you weren't discussing Savage content but a different level of play entirely. If we're talking about dungeons, at least some of them are definitely designed for healer DPS (the example that always comes to mind first is the Antitower boss where both DDs are turned to dolls and it's on the tank and the healer to free them or the group will wipe). More importantly, all dungeons are definitely balanced to have room for healer DPS.

My advices were regarding a new player, with low experience in FF14 and new to healing, to basically play safe.

I think it's better to advice new players to push their limits from the start. If they just "play it safe" and not think or practice DPSing while they're leveling, it doesn't magically come easy to them at level 60. The worst thing to do is make new healers afraid of doing any mistakes ("mess this up and your tank will die and your whole group will die and everyone will hate you forever!1!"), as Fernosaur pointed out above. It's much better to try and sometimes mess up than not try at all.

[Fernosaur]

Exactly! And that was my point from the beginning. We should all stop telling new healers that they shouldn't DPS until they feel safe, because as content gets harder they're never gonna feel safe, and telling them the world will end if they accidentally let the tank die because of Cleric Stance will just intimidate them and keep them from trying to DPS altogether. We should stop doing this even more so now that Cleric Stance is a thing of the past!

Remember that the first dungeons a healer will see will be Sastasha, Tam Tara and Copperbell Mines. All of those are incredibly easy to DPS through as a healer. Some of the smaller pulls don't need a single cast of Cure or Benefic to keep the tank alive. These are the perfect places to teach healers that yes, there is a lot of downtime, and they can use these downtime to speed up the mob killing.

I got a newbie healer on Sastasha today who was casting Stone without Cleric on. At first I asked if she was new and when she confirmed it, I offered that she could ask me or my friends anything, and we could just stop for a bit and explain it (the tank was a friend of mine too, so there was no prob with that). After a while I asked her if she knew what Cleric Stance did, and she seemed intimidated by the idea that healing was hurt by using it, but I explained that 5 secs was just two casts of Stone and she could probably get much more before having to turn it off and safely heal the tank. She started DPSing afterwards, even though my friend was doing two pulls at once every time.

I told her that maybe she'd end up accidentally killing a tank one day, but it was all part of the learning process to balance healer DPS and healing needed, and she was very open about learning this and seemed eager to "not suck," to quote her words. This is what we should be pushing for when we find new healers: encourage them to explore all the tools in their job, we should [b]not[/i] intimidate them and impose artificial barriers on their skill and learning curve.

Sorry if I came off a little aggressive, Sylvain, that wasn't my intention, but teaching newer players how to play the game is something I'm very adamant about.

[winsock]

#1 is what does DPS mean in the context of healing

Don't just stand around idle.
Most people won't take issue with low DPS provided you are using CS when DPSing. You do have a DPS rotation and should push for high DPS, but keeping party members above 0 HP is a higher priority

#2 Is it really that rare, or is this more of a "soapbox"moment for everyone who has that one story where all the healer did was heal, even when the tank was overgeared and both dps'ers didn't draw aggro, and stayed out of the "bad" ?

Happens all the time.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It is normally that, if the healer has nothing else to do, because the party doesn't take any damage right that moment or anytime soon, you should be doing any kind of skills that deal damage, till the moment you're having to heal again. (this isn't a rare thing, even tho lots of people want to tell you that it never happens)

But here is were the fun part comes in, with today's community that's not good enough anymore, you're supposed to tank,dps, make coffee, bake a cake, take the dog for a walk, visit your grandmother, laundry, grocery shopping and clean your whole house while keeping everybody alive. If you miss one of these, well be happy because you'll be re running that dungeon since player A and B already initiated a vote kick. (this on the other hand is rare because nobody ain't got time for that, and that's when the players ingame and on the forums start complaining that a healer refused to dps or do their job)

Welcome back to FFXIV my friend

I really hate this hyperbolic nonsense when the vast majority of players demanding healer DPS only want to see an effort put forth. I watch Xenosys' stream, which is notorious for "bullying" yet the only time chat makes fun of healers is when they're doing nothing. 300 DPS in A12S? Won't hear a peep about it. DPS/Tank taking unnecessary damage? They're mocking them not the healer. New healer? They're more likely to offer advice, especially if said player is forthcoming. These are raiders. The idea people demand everything and the kitchen sink from healers is simply an excuse because it's easier to blame everyone else than admit you're just being lazy.

I'm a noob when it comes to ffxiv. I've owned the game for years, but never really played until this past month. Relatively new to the forums too, and I see a lot of posts , mostly seeming to do with the changes. And there are a ton of dps questions, almost a dead horse as it were.

The question two fold, is

#1 is what does DPS mean in the context of healing, I mean are we talking about a "holy" when applicable, and keeping relevant DOTs up? Or is their some meta that is expected where healers are to have full rotations to run while also keeping an extra eye on those in the party that need heals?


#2 Is it really that rare, or is this more of a "soapbox"moment for everyone who has that one story where all the healer did was heal, even when the tank was overgeared and both dps'ers didn't draw aggro, and stayed out of the "bad" ?

Since Cleric Stance will die out come Stormblood, you don't have to worry about the clunky toggle aspect of stance dancing.

That being said, first and foremost, never be afraid to let someone die because you're practicing. Obviously, avoid it whenever possible but occasional mishaps are part of growing as a player. Very few people I've pugged with have ever gotten frustrated when I overestimated a large pull or Benediction misfired. I'll just quickly apologize and adjust. The reason I emphasise this is because once you get over the initial anxiety many have tanking or healing, it'll feel much more natural letting the tank's HP drop. A good rule of thumb is to cast heals outside the dungeon. What you heal for is your threshold. Say it's 1,000 and the tank has 2,000 HP. You now know that allowing him to dip below 1,000 is easily recoverable because you heal for that much in one ability. What I recommend is playing to your gut while still pushing yourself. Don't be afraid to drop Cleric early and heal even if it's an overheal. You are still learning, after all. At the same time though, push yourself. Those last couple dungeons went well and you felt you didn't need to baby the tank? Next time, let them drop lower and "risk it," so to speak. The more you take the approach, the easier you'll find DPSing.

As for how frequent heal only healer happens? Far more than it should at higher level content. I won't ever pick at new healers or leveling, but it does get a little irksome when you're in an Expert with a mentor healer who can't be bothered to cast Holy.

I think it's better to advice new players to push their limits from the start. If they just "play it safe" and not think or practice DPSing while they're leveling, it doesn't magically come easy to them at level 60. The worst thing to do is make new healers afraid of doing any mistakes ("mess this up and your tank will die and your whole group will die and everyone will hate you forever!1!"), as Fernosaur pointed out above. It's much better to try and sometimes mess up than not try at all.

I cannot emphasise this enough. I've found it much easier teaching less experienced healers how to DPS or to take chances than more seasoned ones who only want to heal. Why? People are naturally set in their ways more often than not. A lot don't want to deviate from "what works" even if they can't seem to appreciate it things only worked because everyone else made up for their lack of contribution.