Compromise: Just Charge $5 For Now. Once 2.0 is Out, Then Charge $12

[AamesxDavid]

You see, this is full of ad hominems. You're attacking me instead of the argument.

You say that, but.. my post was quoted right above this, and I don't see once place where that happened.

You're insinuating that I have a secret agenda to pay less for 2.0.

I said the exact opposite. Your solution is to pay full price at 2.0 regardless of how many people will stay, and I simply pointed out that that is inconsistent with your reasoning for wanting a lesser charge up to that point. Far from insinuating a secret agenda, I simply said it would make you more consistent for suggesting such a thing.

You're insinuating that because I didn't mention SE's profit motive in every single sentence I must not be sincere about that motive.

No, I didn't insinuate that - I flat out stated it. Again, consistency: if charging less after 2.0 would make SE more money, you should be in favor of it, yet you claim not to be. If you don't care about SE's profit after 2.0, it's not a good reason to be in favor of a price drop now.

You're suggesting that I don't have a proper case because I used a catch phrase you didn't particularly care for, even though most people understand the meaning of "fully operational" when compared to what we actually got at FFXIV's launch.

No, I'm stating that you don't have a case because your argument, once again, rested on SE's profit and not the state of the game. How many more times do I need to say that all I'm asking for is consistency?

As far as BG people being so hardcore that they ought to love it.. I think you're misunderstanding what it means to be a "rabid fan". Ask any developer - their most hardcore fans are the ones that hate everything new that they do because it doesn't live up to their expectations of being as good or better than what made them a hardcore fan to begin with. Lots of hardcore fans of the Final Fantasy franchise have hated everything since VII. Their words don't hold more weight simply because they enjoyed previous titles. The number of people overall who enjoy the game is what matters.

And for the last time, I'm not arguing that it's possible that it may benefit SE to drop the price. It is. In fact, I'll bold this just to make sure you actually read it instead of making up your version of what I said.

You might be right.

But all I'm saying is that it hasn't been anywhere near proven that you are. So request a real poll, try to get something conclusive before saying that SE should lower its price in the hopes that enough people will stay to make it worthwhile.

And don't abandon the whole concept of price elasticity just because the game has "2.0" after it, because it makes the rest of your argument seem disingenuous.

[Rentahamster]

No, I didn't insinuate that - I flat out stated it. Again, consistency: if charging less after 2.0 would make SE more money, you should be in favor of it, yet you claim not to be. If you don't care about SE's profit after 2.0, it's not a good reason to be in favor of a price drop now.

No, I'm stating that you don't have a case because your argument, once again, rested on SE's profit and not the state of the game. How many more times do I need to say that all I'm asking for is consistency?

That you don't see the consistency in Amy's argument here makes me think that you misunderstand what she's trying to say.

Comparing version 1.0 to competing entertainment products of a similar price puts 1.0 at a disadvantage because it does not hold up well. In an apples to apples comparison, when compared to other MMOs at a similar price point, version 1.0 still lacks a feature set and content that other MMOs have. The only draw is the current user base who have already invested time into the game as well as people who like the Final Fantasy brand. Therefore, in choosing how to spend their money, it's likely that most people (current users and potential new users) will choose to spend it elsewhere. In this situation, it's arguable that a lower price point may help to draw in new customers and retain old customers. Or not. Who knows.


Comparing version 2.0 to competing entertainment products of a similar price puts 2.0 on more competitive ground because it should be a much more substantial game. In an apples to apples comparison, when compared to other MMOs at a similar price point, version 2.0 will have a feature set and content that should be competitive with other MMOs. If everything goes according to plan, it will have its own unique characteristics that have a better draw than other MMOs, in addition to benefiting from the Final Fantasy brand. Therefore, in choosing how to spend their money, it's likely that a higher number of people will consider version 2.0 a better value for $12 than version 1.0. Additionally, in choosing how to spend their money, a consumer might opt to choose FF14 version 2.0 instead of a more established MMO because of the things that FF14 version 2.0 might do better than other games like WoW of Rift.

It's all about assessing the market environment in any given situation and then trying to predict what consumer behavior will be.

And for the last time, I'm not arguing that it's possible that it may benefit SE to drop the price. It is. In fact, I'll bold this just to make sure you actually read it instead of making up your version of what I said.

You might be right.

But all I'm saying is that it hasn't been anywhere near proven that you are.

Right, we don't know if $5 is the perfect equilibrium point of revenue maximization for sure. Just as we don't know if $12 is the perfect equilibrium spot as well.

If you concede that the argument as laid out in the OP "might be right", then that's pretty much all I was asking for: That "the concept of lowering the price would be more beneficial to SE" is plausible, and should be considered by management.

[AamesxDavid]

That you don't see the consistency in Amy's argument here makes me think that you misunderstand what she's trying to say.

Then your talk about comparing 1.0 and 2.0 to other MMOs is not only pure speculation, but beside the point, because you ignored what you quoted right above it:

No, I'm stating that you don't have a case because your argument, once again, rested on SE's profit and not the state of the game.

The argument is that by lowering the price, enough people will pay the subscription that SE will get more money than if they charge "full price".

You may notice that nowhere in there is the version number of the game mentioned. Why, then, is the version number suddenly so important at 2.0 that you disregard the above argument entirely to charge full price?

Version 1: charge less so that more people come and SE gets more money.
Version 2: charge more because it will be as good as other MMOs.

You find this consistent? Where is your price elasticity in version 2? You have no idea what people are going to value the game at, nor does SE.

If you concede that the argument as laid out in the OP "might be right", then that's pretty much all I was asking for: That "the concept of lowering the price would be more beneficial to SE" is plausible, and should be considered by management.

In that case, I refer you to your own OP, where you quoted SE as saying:

So we are taking this poll to heart and discuss this again and see if this is an option for us. We will then get back to the players and decide.

Hell, you even put it in bold. Guess this whole 66-page thread could have been avoided, eh?

[Physic]

Then your talk about comparing 1.0 and 2.0 to other MMOs is not only pure speculation, but beside the point, because you ignored what you quoted right above it:



The argument is that by lowering the price, enough people will pay the subscription that SE will get more money than if they charge "full price".

You may notice that nowhere in there is the version number of the game mentioned. Why, then, is the version number suddenly so important at 2.0 that you disregard the above argument entirely to charge full price?

Version 1: charge less so that more people come and SE gets more money.
Version 2: charge more because it will be as good as other MMOs.

You find this consistent? Where is your price elasticity in version 2? You have no idea what people are going to value the game at, nor does SE.



In that case, I refer you to your own OP, where you quoted SE as saying:



Hell, you even put it in bold. Guess this whole 66-page thread could have been avoided, eh?

i think his point in the thread was to confirm and highlight the point that it is an issue. So that they can consider it as more than just 1 sources poll.

I definitely think they should consider it, however, all im saying, is consider it based on the long term health of the game (ie profit margin because that determines how long and how much a company is willing to put in a product)

And basically saying i dont think 5 is the best price point.

I also agree that if they find the price point is lower, that they should keep it at that point. In all honesty people really really dont want an MMO to change prices on them. Whatever price they settle on, the basically should keep for a decent amount of time.

The best way to deal with somehow charging less now, would be limited time offers, and promotional package deals. They have to make it really clear that its not the normal price, or they will just get a mass exodus when 2.0 comes out.

[stoned]

i think his point in the thread was to confirm and highlight the point that it is an issue. So that they can consider it as more than just 1 sources poll.

I definitely think they should consider it, however, all im saying, is consider it based on the long term health of the game (ie profit margin because that determines how long and how much a company is willing to put in a product)

And basically saying i dont think 5 is the best price point.

I also agree that if they find the price point is lower, that they should keep it at that point. In all honesty people really really dont want an MMO to change prices on them. Whatever price they settle on, the basically should keep for a decent amount of time.

The best way to deal with somehow charging less now, would be limited time offers, and promotional package deals. They have to make it really clear that its not the normal price, or they will just get a mass exodus when 2.0 comes out.

they wont listen to reason they will continue to ingore anyone oped to their pay or leave method. they will troll and derail this tread till it gets locked.

game not worth paying for. its not beta its just obsolete and wont be here come 2.0

[TheVedis]

they wont listen to reason they will continue to ingore anyone oped to their pay or leave method. they will troll and derail this tread till it gets locked.

game not worth paying for. its not beta its just obsolete and wont be here come 2.0

ok lets disect this

they wont listen to reason they will continue to ingore anyone oped to their pay or leave method
arent you doing this and insulting anyone who doesnt want to leave with you?

they will troll and derail this tread till it gets locked.
like you are doing now? they are more on topic then you are

game not worth paying for. its not beta its just obsolete and wont be here come 2.0
then seriously, why the hell are you still here? what do you care? arent you supposedely a warcraft advocate now who just bought a year sub over there so you can get free diablo(which btw is a major activition ploy used when they know a games sales are declining so they can make a quick cash infusion, they have done it with several other franchises)

[stoned]

ok lets disect this

they wont listen to reason they will continue to ingore anyone oped to their pay or leave method
arent you doing this and insulting anyone who doesnt want to leave with you?

they will troll and derail this tread till it gets locked.
like you are doing now? they are more on topic then you are

game not worth paying for. its not beta its just obsolete and wont be here come 2.0
then seriously, why the hell are you still here? what do you care? arent you supposedely a warcraft advocate now who just bought a year sub over there so you can get free diablo(which btw is a major activition ploy used when they know a games sales are declining so they can make a quick cash infusion, they have done it with several other franchises)

no its basicly their argument if you dont want to pay leave if not shut up... i wont be silenced

[stoned]

[then seriously, why the hell are you still here? what do you care?

point proven....

[AmyRae]

ok lets disect this

they wont listen to reason they will continue to ingore anyone oped to their pay or leave method
arent you doing this and insulting anyone who doesnt want to leave with you?

they will troll and derail this tread till it gets locked.
like you are doing now? they are more on topic then you are

game not worth paying for. its not beta its just obsolete and wont be here come 2.0
then seriously, why the hell are you still here? what do you care? arent you supposedely a warcraft advocate now who just bought a year sub over there so you can get free diablo(which btw is a major activition ploy used when they know a games sales are declining so they can make a quick cash infusion, they have done it with several other franchises)

There is a third rail that hasn't been heard from much that doesn't want to see any charges for FFXIV right now. To me, that only makes sense if SE didn't need the money, because obviously you'd want to preserve as great a player base as possible.

But, I'm fairly certain the hat-in-hand is a sign some revenue needs to be generated to stay afloat. That's why we're asking for an adjusted price that makes sense, not a free ride.

[AmyRae]

The argument is that by lowering the price, enough people will pay the subscription that SE will get more money than if they charge "full price".

You may notice that nowhere in there is the version number of the game mentioned. Why, then, is the version number suddenly so important at 2.0 that you disregard the above argument entirely to charge full price?

Version 1: charge less so that more people come and SE gets more money.
Version 2: charge more because it will be as good as other MMOs.

You find this consistent? Where is your price elasticity in version 2? You have no idea what people are going to value the game at, nor does SE.

For a guy who once said this has nothing to do with 2.0, you sure like to focus on that a lot.

I'm pretty sure we've answered this already, but I'll make it crystal clear.

I can only assume the "price elasticity" calculations were already performed for when 1.0 launched last year. If 2.0 is the way FFXIV should have launched, then they've already determined the right price for it: $12.99 / month. Everyone who bought FFXIV was willing to pay that if FFXIV launched the way it should have, and once it does launch the way it should have, I see no reason why that sentiment would not continue.

If those at SE want to reconsider what they'll charge for 2.0, that's up to them but we're not calling for it. However, given the state of the product they're trying to sell now, I'd suggest they may want to reconsider it now.

There's evidence to suggest that a price reduction would keep more players. I don't have proof that they could make more money by lowering the price. But there are principles in economics that show such a possibility exists and it should be investigated. I don't have the resources to make that determination with certainty, but the ones making the pitch do. That's all we've ever asked for here: that they take a look at the possibilities.