Compromise: Just Charge $5 For Now. Once 2.0 is Out, Then Charge $12

[Azurus]

Final Fantasy XIV has shipped 190,000 copies in Japan, 210,000 copies in North America and 230,000 copies in Europe as of November 4, 2010 (wikipedia).

At 50 american a pop they raked in ALOT of money for a failed game. approx. $31 MILLION dollars and now they want me to pay a subscription for a year that costs about $156 dollars just to turn around a give them ANOTHER 50 bucks for version 2.0? NO, THANKS.

If they give me my money back for the first failure, I will purchase version 2.0 and Im sure as hell not paying for a subscription for the next year for a game that is so flaud.

ya if you already own the game you dont have to purchase 2.0

[TheVedis]

This thread isnt even about pro or anti subscriptions anymore

its about a bunch of people with epeens DEMANDING everyone stop telling them their optinion, then DEMANDING that everyone agree with their opinion
and getting upset and yelling troll and murder at everyone who says anything back

[AmyRae]

But you think the BG poll is indicative of the community at large even though you have no idea how many people participated in it, they didn't say they were going to definitely quit, and you think their opinions are going to magically change when 2.0 comes out no matter what anyway.

First of all, you don't care about "fully operational", you care how much money it will make SE to change their price - it's the only reason you've given for the discounted price for the next year. Abandoning that because the game has a new number on the version is inconsistent.

Secondly, what does "fully operational" mean? The game works now, just not as many people enjoy it. And once again, there is no guarantee that they will when 2.0 comes out. You can quote all the hopes and dreams of the dev team that you like, but even after 2.0, some people are not going to enjoy the game. Can they then call it not "fully operational" and demand a discount?

Actually, one poll indicated that people might quit. Unless you have more sources you've been hiding that actually prove your point better. And since, according to the previous quote, you're interested mainly in how "operational" the game is, it seems totally fair to charge full price now.

You see, this is full of ad hominems. You're attacking me instead of the argument.

You're insinuating that I have a secret agenda to pay less for 2.0. You're insinuating that because I didn't mention SE's profit motive in every single sentence I must not be sincere about that motive. You're suggesting that I don't have a proper case because I used a catch phrase you didn't particularly care for, even though most people understand the meaning of "fully operational" when compared to what we actually got at FFXIV's launch.

Maybe you should just stop. Just stop.

Questioning the validity of the BG poll is okay, so I'll answer that one. I'll leave it to you to find out how the number of words I used proves I'm in a satanic cult trying to send everyone to hell.

Who would you expect the most rabid fans of Final Fantasy XIV?

Would they be fans of Final Fantasy series? Seems pretty likely. If I were to tell you that one of those Final Fantasy titles were online, the eleventh one, known as FFXI, wouldn't you say those players would be even more stoked to play the next online title in the series: FFXIV?

What if a particular segment enjoyed playing FFXI so much that they wanted to take the game to the next level. So they created mods, at somewhat great risk of getting in trouble, and distributed their creations free to the community at large to improve their experience playing the game. Wouldn't you say that a group of people who loved the original Final Fantasy Online game that much ought to be ecstatic over a brand new sequel?

And yet this particular group who ought to be rabid fans are overwhelmingly passing on FFXIV. This isn't just one poll. This is a poll of a very specialized group of hardcore FFXI players above and beyond your run-of-the-mill FFXI player. They don't think FFXIV is worth it in its current form. That ought to be troubling news.

If even they don't like FFXIV that much, and they have every motivation to blindly love it, then what do you suppose the average FFXI player, who doesn't tinker under FFXI's hood is going to think of FFXIV? And don't even get me started on anyone who has never played Final Fantasy Online before...

[AamesxDavid]

david is arguing for us to pay full price and have less people

I thought the difference between saying "you should pay full price" and saying "your reasons for wanting a discount are bogus" was pretty clear, but it seems to have escaped some people.

Still confused as to why people want to pay full price and have less people....seems... illogical?

I'm still confused as to how you can actually think this is the argument. Or, even if it was, how it's better to have more people if it still means less money for SE - because there's been no real evidence to the contrary. Again, if you want SE to do a real poll, request that instead of just asking them to lower the price. And you should also be requesting that that price stay even when 2.0 hits if they'll still get more money from it.

I'm not asking people to pay more or to quit. I'm asking them to be reasonable and consistent.

[AamesxDavid]

You see, this is full of ad hominems. You're attacking me instead of the argument.

You say that, but.. my post was quoted right above this, and I don't see once place where that happened.

You're insinuating that I have a secret agenda to pay less for 2.0.

I said the exact opposite. Your solution is to pay full price at 2.0 regardless of how many people will stay, and I simply pointed out that that is inconsistent with your reasoning for wanting a lesser charge up to that point. Far from insinuating a secret agenda, I simply said it would make you more consistent for suggesting such a thing.

You're insinuating that because I didn't mention SE's profit motive in every single sentence I must not be sincere about that motive.

No, I didn't insinuate that - I flat out stated it. Again, consistency: if charging less after 2.0 would make SE more money, you should be in favor of it, yet you claim not to be. If you don't care about SE's profit after 2.0, it's not a good reason to be in favor of a price drop now.

You're suggesting that I don't have a proper case because I used a catch phrase you didn't particularly care for, even though most people understand the meaning of "fully operational" when compared to what we actually got at FFXIV's launch.

No, I'm stating that you don't have a case because your argument, once again, rested on SE's profit and not the state of the game. How many more times do I need to say that all I'm asking for is consistency?

As far as BG people being so hardcore that they ought to love it.. I think you're misunderstanding what it means to be a "rabid fan". Ask any developer - their most hardcore fans are the ones that hate everything new that they do because it doesn't live up to their expectations of being as good or better than what made them a hardcore fan to begin with. Lots of hardcore fans of the Final Fantasy franchise have hated everything since VII. Their words don't hold more weight simply because they enjoyed previous titles. The number of people overall who enjoy the game is what matters.

And for the last time, I'm not arguing that it's possible that it may benefit SE to drop the price. It is. In fact, I'll bold this just to make sure you actually read it instead of making up your version of what I said.

You might be right.

But all I'm saying is that it hasn't been anywhere near proven that you are. So request a real poll, try to get something conclusive before saying that SE should lower its price in the hopes that enough people will stay to make it worthwhile.

And don't abandon the whole concept of price elasticity just because the game has "2.0" after it, because it makes the rest of your argument seem disingenuous.

[Zanfire]

I thought the difference between saying "you should pay full price" and saying "your reasons for wanting a discount are bogus" was pretty clear, but it seems to have escaped some people.



I'm still confused as to how you can actually think this is the argument. Or, even if it was, how it's better to have more people if it still means less money for SE - because there's been no real evidence to the contrary. Again, if you want SE to do a real poll, request that instead of just asking them to lower the price. And you should also be requesting that that price stay even when 2.0 hits if they'll still get more money from it.

I'm not asking people to pay more or to quit. I'm asking them to be reasonable and consistent.

most people have been, its you and another person who have been hashing it out for pages. SE would make money if they charged 1$ or 100$ and like they said they will continue to 2.0 whether they have 1 or 1,00 people playing.

most people can't justify paying full price for an inferior version of the game now. Most people are completely willing to pay full price when 2.0 comes out. Thats about all the argument and reason you should need. Fight it all you want, i could care less.

[Starlord]

ya if you already own the game you dont have to purchase 2.0

Exactly, that's MORE money we don't have to pay in our pockets, out of the Kindness of SE Hearts. Instead of paying another 60 bucks for the game, You can use the money to get another 5-6 months worth of game play time ( after the 2-Month Free trial then as well. That's almost another year for only 60 bucks, Essentially for the people that want to play the game.. they are giving another months for free ( for the people that already own the game won't have to pay for it, so that 60 bucks is saved for when you pay for the Sub). SE can only be So Nice to you guys, They been so Generous From the 1.3 year long free trial period, to the 8 month Discount, ( For the 2-month Free Trial reinstatement, and getting version 2.0 for free *which is most likely 60 bucks" which is about 6 months worth of subs*

What else you want SE to do? Bake you a cake? Take you out for dinner at a 5 Star Restaurant? Put on a Comedian Show by spinning on their Heads and clap while they do it?

I understand this was just the OP's Opinion/Analysis etc etc. However, Look what essentially happened in the end? People fighting/Arguing and sometimes even Personally attacking one another. For crying out loud its just a game. I made my fair share on this Thread, and made me say things I didn't mean but to be honest, this thread shouldn't have existed. because of all this fighting and bickering. 80% of ya'll are acting like Children, and that includes me ( at times) Even AamesxDavid and AmyRae that has been Bickering for the past 2 days non-stop.

In anyrate... Lets all just get along like we always have been and stop having hissy fits over what SE is going to do. That's their decision and their decision alone. Hugs and make up?

[Physic]

most people have been, its you and another person who have been hashing it out for pages. SE would make money if they charged 1$ or 100$ and like they said they will continue to 2.0 whether they have 1 or 1,00 people playing.

most people can't justify paying full price for an inferior version of the game now. Most people are completely willing to pay full price when 2.0 comes out. Thats about all the argument and reason you should need. Fight it all you want, i could care less.

The whole inferior version of the game argument is kind of moot. Its a perception, if you feel the game as it is gives no enjoyment and is not worth paying for, you do what you have to do, However the fact that something new will come along later doesnt invalidate the current product.
IE
FFXI rise of the zilart, was it worth less when it was released, just because 1 year later they would have art urghan? is everything before art urghan a waste? No, because if you enjoy the game now, then it doesnt matter if later you can get it and have more options, more monsters and more content.

The other idea, is that 2.0 will automatically be better than the current game, this is also unproven. It will be different, this much is assured, better? thats a different question.

A lot of people will tell you that art urgan was way better than abyssea, in fact some will say abyssea ruined the game. Point is just because something is new, doesnt mean you will enjoy it as much.

So it comes back to this, are you enjoying the game now? if not, you should not play when it goes p2p, if so, you should pay.

Now, the discussion of how much to pay hinges on

for the developer what will make the most money, and help their brand the most,

for me, what will give me the most enjoyment for my buck.

I personally believe if the game doesnt make back a certain amount of money from subs, they will give the current game the bear minimum of development, this is consistent with about 6-7 months of the free year. We basically got no new content, all the content added was stuff developed day 1, and released slowly throughout a 9 month period. This made sense, because they were not charging.

Essentially its this, you get what you pay for. Thats why im concerned with their profits, because if the game profits more, i get more. If less cost equals greater profits im for it.

[Reinheart]

Off topic... if they making 2.0 CE version... I hope to god they make it without any region specific special items. (Example: Japan got the cup, US got the book) and Hope to god... they offer some kind of deal so current CE version owners can get the special item for cheap or some other method... knowing SE I know they will try to do some thing like this to try and make people buy the CE version again just for the special item...

btw this thread is going no where is it? lol

[Starlord]

Off topic... if they making 2.0 CE version... I hope to god they make it without any region specific special items. (Example: Japan got the cup, US got the book) and Hope to god... they offer some kind of deal so current CE version owners can get the special item for cheap or some other method... knowing SE I know they will try to do some thing like this to try and make people buy the CE version again just for the special item...

btw this thread is going no where is it? lol

Nope, All it is is Fighting/Bickering/Personal attacks etc etc