Still to this day... (the dramatic game-play on BRD last expansion)

[bswpayton]

FFXIV Community,
I'm very interested in asking 2 questions regarding last years expansion changes to the BRD job:

I cant stand wm, cant stand it makes me barely even wana play bard, totally sucked the fun out of the job for me cant tell you how many times I thought I was attacking something but didnt let the whole cast go through. Im with most people here bard will prob always be one of my last dps choices because of wm , where as it would of been a first choice if they didnt have it.

[SaitoHikari]

Speaking as someone that started playing after HW was released, I don't view WM as that big of a deal, although it did throw me for a loop at first. That said, I do have several issues with it.

1) The game literally ambushes Bards with the skill. There's no indication at all from earlier level skills that Bard is suddenly going to lose most of their mobility.
2) It clashes with several earlier skills, the River of Blood passive especially. I'm sure we don't need to go over why yet again.
3) It's literally a copy-pasted mechanic from Machinist, a job that was designed around the mechanic in the first place. Had this not been the case, I'm sure it'd be received far better.

As it stands, in practical terms, Bard damage pretty much skyrocketed for those that have mastered the usage of WM, to the point where I usually end up being the top DPS wherever I go in Lv. 60 content while still maintaining all of my support options when needed. I'd argue Bards as they are now are actually broken, but you'd pretty much have to have raid-tier skill level to achieve that. That's not practical for a lot of people. Indeed, noticing the way that I play, I don't think those playing on controllers or hand disabilities can play the class at a high efficiency level at all, I have to play the class with a keyboard/mouse hybrid (keyboard inputs for my most used skills on the first bar, mouse inputs for all my skills on the other two bars, having to manually swap bars to keyboard input everything is the kind of thing that could result in massive carpal tunnel playing as Bard if you saw how many abilities I tend to use at any given time).

WM added a massive skill gap to the class, wider than the freaking Grand Canyon, which is the reason why many now consider Bard to have the highest skill ceiling in the game. The class has a ton of buffs and oGCDs to manage, far more than most DPS, along with one of the oGCDs having a RNG reset mechanic, and WM is fairly crippling in that department.

There's a reason why many think running into a good Bard is now a myth these days too.

[Shougun]

Why do people keep insisting that they needed cast bars to balance them? Bards were not overpowered in 2.X, the main criticism they got was that they were easier to play than the ranged magic users, at no point though was the meta 1x tank, 2x healer 5x Bards or anything like that.

More of an issue for PvP, if you could kite for days and deal the same amount of damage as a stationary Black Mage - that would be rather unacceptable. WM gives SE the opportunity to fairly give them similar damage without as much "wtf?" from the BLM.

There is an element of jealousy/imbalance for PvE too, as if they add high movement moments that don't require stack it was clear that Bards were advantaged and Black Mages not. The game has a high element of all about that deeps so I don't think SE not having a tool to fairly control how much output they both have would be good (having Bard do less damage than other DD wouldn't be a good solution), but its a possible solution (BRD not ever being able to do near BLM output but maintaining full mobility for example).

I do believe they can make the sniper stance less caster like and friendly to use though (making the transition more enjoyable and less shocking), and also differentiate the style of Bard and Machinist. I think a tool /like/ WM is better for the job's long term health, but I do believe SE can make it more interesting/friendly ~!

[Stormfur]

I *despise* it.

Not because I don't know how to use it effectively, but because I want to be able to enjoy the mobility. Perhaps the trade off could be a shorter rage. Machinist feels like it was built for cast timers on certain skills but bard was not.

[xbahax92]

Im playing bard now since 2.0, I did not change my main and still wont change in stormblood. I do not see the mobility as a failure for this class. I see skills of the bard as a failure. Looking to Machinist; the cast bar works totally fine aslong you can keep some procs and prepare for movement. While I had to get used for the Minuet in beginning of HW, I got more confident with the moving when the cast is about to finish (+0,5s does not cancel casts).

• Looking deeper to the skills, Bloodletter (+Rain of Death) has to be reworked. It is really annoying to see them resetting cause of our dot crits and you cant use a single one cause you are casting and meanwhile its reseting twice even.
• Then AoE rotation; while Machinist and Bard have the same AoE-Type(radius), Machinist deals WAY more damage AoE-wise. While Machinist has Spreadshot (130TP, 100 potency)&Grenado Shot (160TP, 120 potency) + every ammunation giving another +20 potency to any gcd skill + the AoE Turret!! (60 potency, effect with Hypercharge 120), the Bard has his Rain of Death with a 15s CD (100 potency) + Quick Nock & Wide Volley (140&160TP, both 110 potency). Looks unfair to me.
• Also Feint. I have a feeling that this skill was not supposed to be in anyway useful to bard and his rotation. While we profit from it for movement, double ogcd's and weaving Empyreal Arrow, it kills our TP drastically. I would be happy to get rid of this skill in exchange for something else for mobility etc.
• Last but not least, songs. Playing them takes up again 2,50s, which results in dps loss. Many even dont use them, many still think Requiem lowers our dps by 10% like mana/tp song. While Machinist just uses his "joystick" and needs 1 click, the bard has to cast. While I do like the cast animation of songs and would not want them to change it drastically, I would enjoy to see some other animation - like music notes flying around or being as an active&staying buff animation rather than the long cast bar.

[Mycow8me]

It is really annoying to see them resetting cause of our dot crits and you cant use a single one cause you are casting and meanwhile its reseting twice even.

I feel like this is the most annoying thing on bard currently. Sometimes while keeping up rotation/Dots or dealing with the casting bar, bloodletter will refresh itself 2-3 times before you get to use it again and that is a DPS loss. If anything they should be able to "stock" up to like 3 or something so you can use them at your leisure in your rotations.

[Shougun]

I feel like this is the most annoying thing on bard currently. Sometimes while keeping up rotation/Dots or dealing with the casting bar, bloodletter will refresh itself 2-3 times before you get to use it again and that is a DPS loss. If anything they should be able to "stock" up to like 3 or something so you can use them at your leisure in your rotations.

Oh that's a nice idea. Reminds me a bit of Sylvanas lol.

[LunarEmerald]

Bard to me was a lot more fun without minuet. It's not the cast times that bug me, it's how awkward it makes the job play. The job was never designed for cast times in mind and it shows. Machinist flows so much better because GB was always intended to be a part of it. Minuet was just shoehorned onto Bard to homogenize it with Machinist.

[Naunet]

- Is anyone still irritated by the game-play changes to BRD from last expansion? If so (or not), could you explain?

Yup. Hate it. I enjoy the mobility of pre-HW bard and feel like I did plenty of damage plus brought utility. I dislike that they took a unique-feeling class and made it feel just like a caster.

As for your second question - it's always a concern with games that patch class updates, but it's not something I spend too much time worrying about.

There is an element of jealousy/imbalance for PvE too, as if they add high movement moments that don't require stack it was clear that Bards were advantaged and Black Mages not.

I mean, this is just kind of the trade-off between different classes and is pretty standard across lots of games... There is strategy required in PvP. Other players should take responsibility to maintain control of opponents in an effort to keep them away from their stand-still caster teammate... It really didn't require modifying bard to... also be standstill. Why do they NEED to dish out as much damage as black mages? They did plenty and bring utility.

[dragonseth07]

I don't mind WM.

I've played enough games over the years that I'm used to my favorite stuff getting changed in a patch. It happens. You can't expect everyone else to deal with changes but not you. :P

WM itself changes the feel of BRD a lot, but I wouldn't say it's bad. It's different, not worse.