Still to this day... (the dramatic game-play on BRD last expansion)

[SenorPatty]

I dropped bard the second I saw it had a casting bar..I mean I finished leveling it to 60 but didn't like it at all. Archers aren't meant to have a casting bar imo. Hoping they ditch the casting bars in SB so I can play it again ^^

After playing it at a lvl 60 capacity on PotD, I'm of the same opinion. Such a shame that MCH followed nearly the same route.

[Shougun]

I mean, this is just kind of the trade-off between different classes and is pretty standard across lots of games... There is strategy required in PvP. Other players should take responsibility to maintain control of opponents in an effort to keep them away from their stand-still caster teammate... It really didn't require modifying bard to... also be standstill. Why do they NEED to dish out as much damage as black mages? They did plenty and bring utility.

It's all about the deeps man, thats why we have those great tank and healer damage threads lol.

I like the idea of some sort of strong slow attack because Ranger and I liked Ranger in FFXI, and Bard definitely gobbled up that idea (like Ninja to Thief). But they could have done like a snipe ability or mechanic that is one spell. Personally believe Bard having WM with greater range and just making the WM more friendly (not cancel on movement, but fire at that bonus %) would be good, and make MCH more mobile but thats just how I "see" them. The rain of lead, vs semi nuke and greatest range of all combat classes. The issue of losing bloodletters is a problem ofc.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It's clear the idea was created for MCH as we have ways to bypass casts, and we're a very oGCD weaving heavy job. Minuet took some getting used to, and both had their deficiencies at first, but those who didn't hate it enough to drop it simply adapted.

I feel like the ability, if not desire to adapt in this game is unfortunately rather low. This isn't me defending every decision or change the devs make, no, but it feels like when faced with an obstacle or something unfavorable, we demand it change for us rather than we change to adapt (at least where it's good to do so.)

[Cabalabob]

I doubt that the stance is going anywhere. My hope is that in stormblood they'll give BRD and MCH a second stance that's like the opposite of the current stance.

Like something that will double their attack speed but increase their tp costs, so they can stance dance like tanks, use the speed stance normally or when they need to move, but when not moving or low on tp, you can switch to minuet/gauss for the extra damage.

[Vespar]

I absolutely loathed Bard when 3.0 hit. It was my main job and I tried time and again after the expansion hit to like it. I was one of the ones who begged and pleaded SE to change/remove Wanderer's Minuet and return the job I loved. After I hit 60, I ended up swearing off Bard entirely and I didn't pick it back up again until a few months ago.
The long hiatus somehow changed my perspective and gave me time to forget the 2.0 Bard that I originally loved. Now, I have grown fully accustomed to the casting aspect of 3.0 BRD. In fact, I have even gone back to calling it my main job and it actually feels weird now when I'm in lower level content sans-Wanderer's Minuet and forced to relive the 2.0 days.

Weird how time away can change your perspective.

[Riardon]

Although Bard is not my main I do agree that the HW changes to Bard were a terrible mistake. It wasn't a simple change or a tinkering of skills. It was a fundamental change that made Bard feel like a completely different Job. Don't do this again.

[bounddreamer]

I learned to stance dance for PvP and I don't mind it so much. At first, I hated the cast bar. Bard was my first job in ARR until I leveled WAR and switched to tank main. Then bard was my last job to 60, and for dps jobs I typically relied on DRG or SMN.

Over the past few months I've come back to bard and I've actually been enjoying it quite a bit, got it geared up, and may make it my number one dps job for Stormblood when I'm not tanking or healing.

Being forced to stance dance for PvP helped me relearn to play it better overall.

[Rhysati]

I still hate it. BRD was the most interesting job by far for me because FFXIV has incredibly slow combat. Being able to move around, dodge, and supply benefits to the team was totally for me. The changes in HW absolutely killed the class for me and I won't play it again. I tried to adapt, but at launch of HW it was clear that the entire change was half-assed. The gameplay was clunky and turning Wanderer's Minuet on actually lowered your overall DPS. It has since been fixed to be reasonable in the increase of damage, but the entire class feels like it wasn't designed for it.

So, I switched to the next closest thing with MCH. MCH feels like it was designed for Gauss Barrel. When you get your procs you can freely move while continuing to fire and everything flows in a natural way. I still find the classes in the game boring, but MCH is far closer to what I liked about BRD than BRD is in the current state of the game. It's a shame that the roleplay is the only thing that really holds me here and not the gameplay. I have to play other MMOs for that.

[Cadmus83]

Thanks everyone who responded! I'm very grateful to hear your stories and opinions.

I tip my cap to all those who were able to roll with the changes and even master WM. Unfortunately I was never able get used to the changes but I was pleasantly surprised to find my new loves, SCH and DRG during this expansion. With SB approaching and "battle changes" being mentioned I cannot help but feel a little nervous reflecting on my past experience but being able to have this conversation with you all has been helpful.

Thanks again!

[SaitoHikari]

[*]Then AoE rotation; while Machinist and Bard have the same AoE-Type(radius), Machinist deals WAY more damage AoE-wise. While Machinist has Spreadshot (130TP, 100 potency)&Grenado Shot (160TP, 120 potency) + every ammunation giving another +20 potency to any gcd skill + the AoE Turret!! (60 potency, effect with Hypercharge 120), the Bard has his Rain of Death with a 15s CD (100 potency) + Quick Nock & Wide Volley (140&160TP, both 110 potency). Looks unfair to me

I have to correct you here, this is highly conditional. Machinist has immense burst, but Bard has far, FAR better AoE sustain.

The issue with Bard is our set-up time, you have to begin pulls with throwing Windbite on 3 enemies first. Once you do, though, you usually end up with a Rain of Death reset between every Quick Nock cast for the next 12 seconds (210 potency per GCD is no joke at all) before you have to halt and reapply Windbites again if needed. Rain of Death is extremely powerful in the sense that it costs no TP/MP at all, so over time, Bard AoE easily overtakes Machinist, who is practically dead in the water once they run out of TP (and they run out FAR faster than Bard at that). And unlike Bard who can just sing Army's Paeon and keep going with their RoD resets, Machinist has to go through the effort of switching from a Bishop turret back into a Rook to recharge their TP.

Oh, and you also forgot Flaming Arrow. Which is a pretty big thing to forget, it's basically Bard's version of the Bishop autoturret.

Few classes have an answer to just how potentially ridiculous Rain of Death becomes, and people don't realize it because most people probably only run into a Bard that knows how to abuse it like once a month, if at all. Here's a demonstration of one of my dungeon runs from last week.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/140620010

The first half, at least. The second half is just me screwing around as a Scholar. And before anyone asks, it looks like Twitch is acting up right now. :/

(Also, on a side tangent tying in with my previous post in this thread, you get to see just how ridiculous Bard can get at a higher level of mastery, and more importantly, the amount of oGCD management/situational awareness required to produce such results (ESPECIALLY under WM) - to the point where I don't believe anyone can truly 'master' Bard with a controller setup, which would be THE number 1 argument for overhauling/scrapping WM. If you've designed a class where there's an actual skill barrier present based on what platform you're playing on, you've done something majorly wrong.)