Stormblood Crafting System

[javid]

You're arguing against points not made....where did i say one fosters an economy and the other one doesn't? You copied my post then misquote me........

I said interdependence does more than independence for market activity. Price points have everything to do with supply and demand....very little to do with whether everyone is omni independent or interdependent. But actual market activity has more to do with competitive advantage(like you mentioned) AND absolute advantage (aka specialist recipes). And not being able to craft everything (without swapping crystals) drives ppl to interact more with the MB (whether to sell or buy) THAN being self sufficient would....

This was never a discussion about prices.

Lastly the anagloy was sufficient. It's just that you presuppose crafting should be a solo quest and I presuppose crafting should be a dungeon run....so all kinds of analogies can fit either pressuppostion.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

You're arguing against points not made....where did i say one fosters an economy and the other one doesn't? You copied my post then misquote me........

I said interdependence does more than independence for market activity. Price points have everything to do with supply and demand....very little to do with whether everyone is omni independent or interdependent. But actual market activity has more to do with competitive advantage(like you mentioned) AND absolute advantage (aka specialist recipes). And not being able to craft everything (without swapping crystals) drives ppl to interact more with the MB (whether to sell or buy) THAN being self sufficient would....

This was never a discussion about prices.

Lastly the anagloy was sufficient. It's just that you presuppose crafting should be a solo quest and I presuppose crafting should be a dungeon run....so all kinds of analogies can fit either pressuppostion.

The analogy was not sufficient, as Camie said above. Compare apples to apples. You have to party up for trials and dungeons. You have to party up for the FC workshop. You do not have to party up for crafting anything in your Crafting Log.

And no, you did not say that "interdependence does more than independence for market activity". You said "interdependence fosters an economy". That statement left a very obvious implication - that independence does not foster an economy.

The economy is all about getting Gil to move. Supply, demand, pricing, those all have huge impact on, and are impacted by, the overall economy. And those factors could very well be the ones that drive someone to be a single crafter, or an omnicrafter, or something in between.

Camie addressed everything else rather well, I'm not going to try to repeat what has already been said.

[javid]

snip

I was waiting until I got home to address cam's response, but by the time i got home i saw your response too, so I'm gonna get this tag team!!

lets first deal with the analogy b/c we're parsing it beyond what's necessary. Yes!!! for any raid content you need a team avail themselves all at the same time to complete that content; while as a crafter (outside the FC shop) you don't need a team of crafters present all at the same time to complete any craft. The simple comparison was you need more than one crafting job to complete any useful gear (for example) and I liked those several classes as a team of crafters necessary to complete any meaningful craft, yes it's possible to be that team all in one character now that nothing is gated behind spc; but when there were SPC gated recipes you literally needed separate characters (a team of crafters) to facilitate creating all the crafts in game.

Secondly, addressing yours/camie's "independent vs interdependence".....you are being pedantic....so I'll be pedantic too LOL. Economy literally means interdependence and independence is the exact opposite of economy; it's not physically possible to be titled independent if at any time you trade ANYTHING (even if its trading products/services for gil......so now that we're done being petty....lets go bk to the bigger picture).

Of course having some level of independence helps control price points on goods and services, again I agreed having a lot of competitors that can potentially compete encourages "competitive pricing" (or better known as MASSIVE UNDERCUTS!!! LOOL). But image this real life analogy:

if everyone in the world was master certified vehicle mechanic; no one would ever NEEED a mech! You would still have mech services being provided though due solely to competitive advantages (this guy has a bigger garage than me, or this guy has the tools I need, or I just dont have the time today, etc etc). And also with everyone being a master certified mech it would be "hard" to overcharge on services: "how much you charging??? naw, that's too much I'll go to next door instead---oh, oh, now you wanna negotiation....hmm." In this everyone-is-a-master-mech World there would still be economic transaction occurring, HOWEVER IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY DUE THE COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGES.... you'd have to wonder how the economic activity in this made-up world full of master mechanics would fair... with most ppl being able to sit their cars/bikes/boats in their own garages and go to town!!

However in a world where everyone ISN'T a master mech, it would by definition require at minimum the same ppl to ppl interaction (MOST LIKELY MORE) in order to facilitate the level of repairs being done in the first world (the master mech World)---yes i'm assuming ppl dont all collectively decide "we aint getting shit fixed!!"

In the first world economy was a matter of CONVENIENCE, which is still a viable means for economy!! But in the second world economy is a matter of NECESSITY and it makes the interaction less elastic by definition.

If you force ppl to be locked behind a spc class (even if its just for a time) by NECESSITY you have to interact with some other character (even its still YOUR OTHER CHARACTER) to get the crafts you want. This type of interaction is less elastic than if everyone can craft anything and they choose to interact out of convenience (today I might do it myself. tomorrow I get this other guy to do it.)

[Caimie_Tsukino]

Dammit caimie you wrote a lot. When I leave the office I'm coming for you....

OMG... *runs away*

As I said, the game is already built with interdependencies in mind, but some of those interdependencies are an annoyance. FFXIV have a wannabe sandbox crafting system "too complex" for a theme park and to simple for a sandbox (no decay and all items are the same outside NQ/HQ).

Interdependencies are nice when are well done but that it's not the case, the market spin around materials (like ores, crystals) or complex final products, the rest has no value. Why bother selling Aurum Regis Nuggets when is more profitable to sold those materials? This problem is common to any MMO's that allow players to have all the crafting professions in some way, you either sold rare materials or final products from rare recipes. (Yeah, I know there is a market for HQ Leve quest items).

Back in games like Ultima Online or Star Wars Galaxies this never existed, everyone needs something from others but crafting skills were fully independent (not like CRP, for a lot of his recipes the least material used is wood ).

BTW, I did not mention that the economy is dead but NA/EU server are in bad shape due to gil sellers, this is especially noticeable in "small" servers where anything is unaffordable from no crafter/gatherers, even raid consumables or basic tools (my main reason to level DOH/DOL).

So I don't see the point to force a player to level all crafting in order to be of use (560 Levels just for DoH'S after SB release), the perk of an omnicrafter is been available craft anything but should not be better to an individual craft. In fact, if our system were deeper each profession should have their unique crafting process with a lot of little things to learn if you wanted to be a master of everything. Anything else should stay the same, it's very enjoyable and satisfactory.

Note: it's a giving that anyone depends on gathers.

You've made some valid points there