Suggestion as to how to get people to become healers.

[Faliandra]

So you become a good healer by...attacking?
You better improve that slacking DPS of yours before begging for more damage so you can kill something relatevely "fast"

This only will make healers move to other roles, like the "Im thever the one to blame even if my dps is low" DPS.

Youre talking like youre assuming im maining a dps? In fact, I main WHM/AST through every kind of content and SCH for more casual content.
Also,if i DO happen to play DPS, you can be very sure I'm doing just fine with my dps.



As for your first question: You need to optimize how to use your healing skills in order to dps more and you need to know the fight very well to guesstimate
incoming damage etc. So yes, it does make you a better healer because it takes FORESIGHT.

Also,if you had read at least half of this thread, youd see that removing cleric stance would make more healers quit than keeping it the way it is.

[Sebazy]

This is contradictory. It either is or it isn't. There's no middle ground here.

You're missing a fairly big part of the picture I think? =(

Progression teams that start raid content on the first day it's released will generally be quite significantly under geared vs the ilvl the content is tuned to. Thus the frequent requirement in the past to load up on VIT to survive aoes as well as of course, the absolute need for healer DPS to get a clear in this situation (as well as often quite significant tank optimisation as well).

A more casual group that starts further down the line is going to have a bunch of tome and perhaps even 24 man gear bumping their ilvl up to and above the tipping point. Thus they likely won't need healer DPS to get the kill (although in many cases, it can make it significantly easier, A12S is the perfect example of this).

Try to remember that going in with an extra 30 iLvls over the day one progression teams amounts to around 30% more DPS, and that's before we start taking more optimised strats and of course echo into consideration. As Yoshida stated, the healers and tanks end have to pick up some of that slack.

TLDR: Going into savage on day 1? Your healers are going to have to DPS. Going in a few months after it's release? It's not absolutely required.

Elysium's world first A3S kill is a great example of how tightly tuned savage can be at release.

Lastly, please also appreciate that A9S-A12S are collectively the easiest and most forgiving end game tier we've yet seen in FFXIV.

[delukard7]

Tbh as a tank i don´t mind when healers just heal.
I´m a legacy player on a new account. I have done a lot of tanking, and i remember only needing the healer to cleric dance, when the dps aren't doing enough damage.
Like on those old brayflox runs .

[TaleraRistain]

Like on those old brayflox runs .

Speaking of Brayflox runs, I remember when I was a baby white mage that we were actually expected to use Repose on the big boss in the second fight.

[Atlaworks]

please tell me you switch over to spread shot once the excess tp (over 600) + invigorate is used when things are showing they are not dying fast enough at that point to keep spaming that. Speaking of, brds that spam wide volly and mnks that single DPS every pull pulling hate on that one thing, while leaving me do all the damage as SMN, is also aggravating. Venjenz has a point though, look at the replies I got in the story thread=/ ugh.

That post is really spot on, for me its mnks 33%, though I tend to see higher then 50/50 for smn though.

BLM is easy to do decent aoe, but good ones (with good tanks) spam that thundercloud in the mix while doing the pulls.

What doesn't die fast enough to not use grenades?

[Ama_Hamada]

What doesn't die fast enough to not use grenades?

Mnks that do not aoe i guess with a non-dps healer?

[Atlaworks]

Mnks that do not aoe i guess with a non-dps healer?

You just need more grenades then. And probably drop a hypercharge for good measure.

In all seriousness though, spread shot has it's uses and I do use it when necessary, but in endgame content where everyone is overgeared grenado does the trick and thensome. Generally speaking, my priority is hot shot > blood for blood if the pull is suitably dangerous, hypercharge if pack is large or I have a BLM, SMN, or WHM with me > Grenado 4 lyfe, rapid fire if that pack gotta die now 'cause the tank overpulled. Mix in ricochets where possible. Hell, mix in all oGCDs when possible. Blank if it's not gonna knock back. Just keep that up until you're down to 3 or less mobs, then single target is more efficient.

[Taika]

SE never intended for players to have to use healer dps to clear content. This was something players figured out they could do to cheese the system and get clears sooner then they would have been able to otherwise. Indeed sooner then the devs intended. If you are playing the game as the devs intended then dps from healers is not required.

It's really not a sensible argument to make that healers shouldn't be asked to DPS because the developers didn't mean for the players to actually beat the content...

This is what your argument is supporting:

Bluntly put, the dev intention is for overgeared and godlike DPS to carry dumb tanks and healers who can't handle more than 5 buttons. I think that is faulty from the start and any argument derived from it is equally faulty.

I would still claim that healer DPS is developers' intention - otherwise it wouldn't be in the game in this effect. The facts are, 1. healers are able to DPS in this content (their abilities and the battle system allows it), and 2. the healing requirements are set low enough that healers can significantly contribute to DPS from day one, and 3. some content is impossible to beat without healer DPS when it's released. All of these facts are based on the developer's design, hence it follows their intention. If they didn't intend it, they would have designed it some other way. At the latest when they noticed how important healer DPS was in the game's raiding scene already in ARR. And instead of changing it, they made it even more important in Heavensward.

[technole]

For one, they will never have MND scale to doing damage without a stance. That is just too OP to be a healer and have a damage buff while not locked behind a stance.

There is a high skill ceiling in this game for healers who know how many GCDs they get away with without a real heal. That is what separates the good to the not-so-good end game healers. The higher end will end up clearing savage content sooner because they push the limits when its necessary, and when you are in under-geared progression. Like Creator Savage when we were in green i250 crafted gear vs i270. You weren't clearing A11S in the first weeks or month without substantial tank and healer DPS help, you'd be at the soft-enrage with the 2nd GA killing everyone and the towers.

[Zojha]

You're missing a fairly big part of the picture I think? =(

I think you're misunderstanding - what he is saying is that IF you play the way the devs intended, THEN healer DPS is not required.

If you are playing the game as the devs intended then dps from healers is not required.

What that means is that IF you gear up for a couple months before going into Savage to get to the item level assumed during development AND your DPS manage to pull 85-90% of their theoretical potential in the live encounter, THEN healer DPS is not required, NOR do tanks need to do anything other than the aggro combo, because that is how the content has been tuned as per devs.

It all hinges on the IF condition. Your argument is that people go against that IF condition by not waiting months to get the item level required. In which case, yes, tank and healer damage is required. He acknowledges that:

It's grey area only because players have learned to adapt to what they are given in ways the devs did not foresee. Rather than waiting for the dps to be appropriately geared to down the content people figured out they could use healer dps to beat it while being undergeared.

And my own critique of the argument is that the dev intentions are already stupid. According to dev intentions, tanks literally only use the aggro combo - no DoTs, no Storms Edge nor Path, no Maim, no Scourge, no Carve and Spit, no Spirits Within nor Circle of Scorn nor Goring Blade nor Royal Autority, NOTHING. Likewise, healers just poke their nose if they don't heal. And DPS are expected to do 85-90% of their dummy potential in a live fight - at an item level that probably takes month(s) to get.

Bluntly put, the dev intention is for overgeared and godlike DPS to carry dumb tanks and healers who can't handle more than 5 buttons. I think that is faulty from the start and any argument derived from it is equally faulty.