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  1. #10
    Player
    DaikiKiyoshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    343
    Character
    Daiki Kiyoshi
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebazy View Post
    This is going to sound incredibly elitist here so I do apologise in advance, but I can't really see a better way to put this across or sugar coat it.
    No worries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebazy View Post
    I see people passionately shouting this 'content DOESNT require healers to DPS ooh my'. Pretty much every single time my curiosity gets the better of me and I go to have a look, no logs, no raid mounts on lodestone thus is fairly safe to assume no experience to back it up =/ By all means prove me wrong, I don't mean this as a personal attack, rather I just love a good debate <3
    No one will be able to see my main by looking at my lodestone and I'm not in any hurry to change that either. Suffice to say I do have experience in current tier raids as a healer and dps. I have yet to clear a12s but I have the rest down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebazy View Post
    In the content you've experienced, you are absolutely correct, I'm fairly certain it's mathematically possible to beat expert roulette with auto attack damage. And yes, if you hold off hitting savage until your group has mostly tome/24 man gear then you can also easily get away without it.
    Noted. Also since you say this the following confuses me

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebazy View Post
    However, saying that healer DPS is absolutely NOT required to clear savage is just as incorrect as saying it IS. To counter quote and bold:

    This is contradictory. It either is or it isn't. There's no middle ground here.


    Originally Posted by Yoshida
    Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers. Then when those publish clear videos and other people see the healers DPSing, they might think that healers need to be DPSing even though its a situation that only arose because their clear would have otherwise been impossible.
    SE never intended for players to have to use healer dps to clear content. This was something players figured out they could do to cheese the system and get clears sooner then they would have been able to otherwise. Indeed sooner then the devs intended. If you are playing the game as the devs intended then dps from healers is not required. It's only when we start going by player made rules and player established Metas that healer dps becomes required, but only because players said it is. All content can be cleared in a timely manner without healer dps if everyone is geared appropriately.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sebazy View Post
    Now note that SE typically work on the assumption that the 'min' ilvl is about halfway through that tier and yes, the progression FCs going for early clears will generally find themselves in a situation where they do actually require DPS optimisation from both their healers and tanks.

    This disparity in opinion seems to stem between those that have experienced progression raiding in endgame content vs those that haven't. Both sides would do well to appreciate this and perhaps even accept that rather than being as cut and dry as Yoshida would like, it's actually a bit of a grey area.

    It's grey area only because players have learned to adapt to what they are given in ways the devs did not foresee. Rather than waiting for the dps to be appropriately geared to down the content people figured out they could use healer dps to beat it while being undergeared. I would use the fact that the devs nerfed Holy into oblivion to back this up. They realized what players had figured out. They realized their mistake and they took steps to try to fix it.


    So anyway, I am responding in regards to people claiming that the devs intended for people to dps as healers when they clearly didn't.

    As to if people should or not is a whole other debate.
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    Last edited by DaikiKiyoshi; 05-10-2017 at 05:03 AM. Reason: More stuff I thought of