Compromise: Just Charge $5 For Now. Once 2.0 is Out, Then Charge $12

[AmyRae]

Speculation.

Speculation.

Speculation.

Speculation.

Is this the "because I said so" argument? Making absolute statements about something that won't even be finished for another year. Even if all of it were true, how does it follow that 2.0 should disregard the fact that they may be able to get more subscribers by charging less? That was my "faulty argument", was it not?

This is disappointing. You seemed so reasonable up until this post. Now you sound like a Jehovah's Witness for the second coming of FFXIV.

You seemed reasonable yourself until you spent the majority of your prose on ad hominems against one such as I. I guess everyone is equally disappointed.

My claims towards 2.0 are not mere speculation. It's grounded in the reasons provided by Yoshida himself.

I apologize for the belated nature of my next announcement, but as significant updates to the game have been released over the last ten months, a portion of the team has also been simultaneously devoted to working solely on the new FINAL FANTASY XIV. This is an essential part of the process of realizing the ideal we have envisioned. Planning for the new FINAL FANTASY XIV began in January of this year, and April saw the start of large-scale tasks. Since then, however, we have made no compromises in the game’s operation and updates. I believe this is evident if you review the contents of the updates that have been released thus far.

Every resource possible has gone into this year’s patches. The ideal that we have for FINAL FANTASY XIV, however, is extremely high, and we are aware that all of the following changes are still required to achieve the desired quality of service—redesign and restructuring of server layout and operation, overhaul of the user interface, reworking the design and specs of in-game areas, and vast upgrades to the player community systems.

That last part is what we're getting in 2.0, what 1.0 can't do, what releasing 1.0 as the PS3 version would immediately be picked up on by critics as to why it's not good enough to be considered a first-class MMO, and what should have been a part of the game from the beginning.

And it's definitely not speculation to think most people will leave FFXI once full fees for 1.0 resume. Polls on the BG site (who have some of the most hardcore FFXI players, who produce free software mods for the community to use at no cost) are showing that most will leave. If those dedicated hardcore players are going to leave in droves, imagine what the casual community is prepared to do? And yet, if a discount were offered, much of that opinion would be reversed. What a wasted opportunity this could turn out to be to keep the player base that has been cultivated this long.

[Buddhsie]

You seemed reasonable yourself until you spent the majority of your prose on ad hominems against one such as I. I guess everyone is equally disappointed.

My claims towards 2.0 are not mere speculation. It's grounded in the reasons provided by Yoshida himself.



That last part is what we're getting in 2.0, what 1.0 can't do, what releasing 1.0 as the PS3 version would immediately be picked up on by critics as to why it's not good enough to be considered a first-class MMO, and what should have been a part of the game from the beginning.

And it's definitely not speculation to think most people will leave FFXI once full fees for 1.0 resume. Polls on the BG site (who have some of the most hardcore FFXI players, who produce free software mods for the community to use at no cost) are showing that most will leave. If those dedicated hardcore players are going to leave in droves, imagine what the casual community is prepared to do? And yet, if a discount were offered, much of that opinion would be reversed. What a wasted opportunity this could turn out to be to keep the player base that has been cultivated this long.

Regardless of who leaves, V2.0 will be implemented. This is fact.
A very very high percentage of those who leave now will be back for V2.0, it's no skin off anyone's back.

I don't see how you can continue to post, it's like whipping a dead horse.

[Starlord]

Regardless of who leaves, V2.0 will be implemented. This is fact.
A very very high percentage of those who leave now will be back for V2.0, it's no skin off anyone's back.

I don't see how you can continue to post, it's like whipping a dead horse.

I would like to know this myself even... :/. I try to not post here.. but every time it gets off the front page.. it gets bumped back up. I'm trying to put it in the past and let things take its course but people still insist on beating this dead horse.

No wonder SE hasn't said a word on the lodestone in over a week :/. I don't blame the man either ~.~

[AmyRae]

Regardless of who leaves, V2.0 will be implemented. This is fact.
A very very high percentage of those who leave now will be back for V2.0, it's no skin off anyone's back.

I don't see how you can continue to post, it's like whipping a dead horse.

If the game is worth charging for, it's worth charging the right price (and I don't think full price is it) which generates the most revenue and keeps the most players. The more players you have playing now improves the number of players around for 2.0, if not just for the continuity of those players across versions, but also for maintaining larger fanbase to spread the good word.

[Alerith]

If the game is worth charging for, it's worth charging the right price (and I don't think full price is it) which generates the most revenue and keeps the most players. The more players you have playing now improves the number of players around for 2.0, if not just for the continuity of those players across versions, but also for maintaining larger fanbase to spread the good word.

Neither side can claim which price would generate the most revenue. Half price would require double subscribers and full price is going to cause the game to lose some people....so really, who knows?

[AamesxDavid]

You seemed reasonable yourself until you spent the majority of your prose on ad hominems against one such as I. I guess everyone is equally disappointed.

Until you went once again with the shoehorned debate jargon, now I'm even more disappointed - unless you have an example of these alleged ad hominems.

My claims towards 2.0 are not mere speculation. It's grounded in the reasons provided by Yoshida himself.

They're based on his hopes for the game, not what the game absolutely is or will be. You can't just state things like "Version 2.0 will make the PS3 version a success with critical acclaim" as if it is fact. They're working on fixing currently-known issues. It's not a guarantee that suddenly everyone will love it.

And it's definitely not speculation to think most people will leave FFXI once full fees for 1.0 resume.

Because one site had a poll in which, mind you, no one said they absolutely would not pay? It said they were "against" the payment. Again, at the very least, you should be requesting an official poll to really show SE what price would yield the most revenue for them instead of just saying they should drop their price because one poll said it would make people happy.

And once again, if you think that SE should base their fee on what would yield the most revenue, why do you think it's so reasonable to charge full price once 2.0 comes out? What if continuing to have a lower price would keep that many more people after 2.0 is released? At least be consistent if that's your real reasoning.

[AmyRae]

Until you went once again with the shoehorned debate jargon, now I'm even more disappointed - unless you have an example of these alleged ad hominems.



They're based on his hopes for the game, not what the game absolutely is or will be. You can't just state things like "Version 2.0 will make the PS3 version a success with critical acclaim" as if it is fact. They're working on fixing currently-known issues. It's not a guarantee that suddenly everyone will love it.



Because one site had a poll in which, mind you, no one said they absolutely would not pay? It said they were "against" the payment. Again, at the very least, you should be requesting an official poll to really show SE what price would yield the most revenue for them instead of just saying they should drop their price because one poll said it would make people happy.

And once again, if you think that SE should base their fee on what would yield the most revenue, why do you think it's so reasonable to charge full price once 2.0 comes out? What if continuing to have a lower price would keep that many more people after 2.0 is released? At least be consistent if that's your real reasoning.

You're just nitpicking the semantics now. I'm not going to rewrite my case to satisfy what you wish to read between the lines. I don't care to play that game.

Do you have a case to make for paying full price or not?

[AamesxDavid]

I'm not going to rewrite my case to satisfy what you wish to read between the lines.

Your case is that a lower fee will increase revenue due to the higher number of subscribers. There, no reading between the lines necessary. The only problem with your case is the flimsy evidence for it. A poll on a fan site which indicated that maybe people would quit and "most were not against paying half". I fear for any company you ever run if that's enough for you to rework your business model.

Do you have a case to make for paying full price or not?

Hmm, great question.. I suppose things like "you should have been paying for the past year" and "you knew the price going in and purchased the game anyway" and "there's no real evidence that it would benefit SE to do otherwise" wouldn't really work here. But, since you are so concerned with SE's bottom line, and you find polls to be so paramount to assessing how it would be affected, here you go:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ng-in-November

Now, we should have an interview with Yoshi P, and say "A recent poll on the official forums showed that over three times more players will stay once the fee is introduced than will leave" or, to put it another way, "less than 25% of players said they would quit".

That poll has real, verifiable numbers on the absolute question at hand, and it's on the official site. Apparently, Lodestone forum goers are way more hardcore than your infamous BG players.

[AmyRae]

Your case is that a lower fee will increase revenue due to the higher number of subscribers. There, no reading between the lines necessary. The only problem with your case is the flimsy evidence for it. A poll on a fan site which indicated that maybe people would quit and "most were not against paying half". I fear for any company you ever run if that's enough for you to rework your business model.



Hmm, great question.. I suppose things like "you should have been paying for the past year" and "you knew the price going in and purchased the game anyway" and "there's no real evidence that it would benefit SE to do otherwise" wouldn't really work here. But, since you are so concerned with SE's bottom line, and you find polls to be so paramount to assessing how it would be affected, here you go:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ng-in-November

Now, we should have an interview with Yoshi P, and say "A recent poll on the official forums showed that over three times more players will stay once the fee is introduced than will leave" or, to put it another way, "less than 25% of players said they would quit".

That poll has real, verifiable numbers on the absolute question at hand, and it's on the official site. Apparently, Lodestone forum goers are way more hardcore than your infamous BG players.

Having a poll about who's going to stay in this forum is like running a poll at Wrigley Field on game day and asking people if they support the Cubs. I imagine those numbers might look different if you asked all of Chicago in general, or all of the U.S. for that matter.

And that's part of the point I'm making. Not every FFXIV player is a regular forum-goer. I'd hazard a guess that many, if not most, don't even bother with it. Or am I to assume that FFXIV has less than a thousand players total judging from the number of the poll's respondents (the game has some serious problems if that's true).

If this game is meant to appeal to wide swath of players who aren't constantly F5ing the forums, then why not keep them with a price they can live with paying? The principles of Price Elasticity suggest there ought to be level that would actually improve the income SE gets from subscriptions as well as improve the amount of players that stick it out. This isn't just something we made up. There are some real potential benefits from this for all sides.

Just to say, "Pay the full price, and damn the consequences, there couldn't possibly be a better way to do this," is short-sighted.

[Alerith]

Just to say, "Pay the full price, and damn the consequences, there couldn't possibly be a better way to do this," is short-sighted.

Your alternative suffers from the exact same thing. You can't guarantee the subscriptions needed to make a lower price more profitable just like nobody can guarantee that paying full price is better over a discount.

As a business, SE is going to go with the option that THEY think will pull in more money between those two options.