Making The DRK/PLD Comp Viable/Meta - Think They're Gonna Do It?

[ValentineSnow]

WAR has the highest aggro generation relative to their optimal DPS rotation. If a WAR tanks the boss even only for a small portion of the fight, they can use Unchained and get a Defiance/Unchained/Zerk boosted BB in and still fit 3 cleaves into that same zerk window (that requires burning Vengeance and RI though). When the PLD or DRK swaps off the WAR, they inherit all of that aggro and thus don't need to use Halone or Power Slash which are large tank DPS losses. Also Zerk boosted Vengeance procs are nothing to sneeze at.

Just because a WAR pulls doesn't make them MT, you can pull to generate spike enmity then trade off and still be considered the OT. You seem to be under the impression that labelling the tanks as MT and OT means one always in tank stance and the other never tanking except adds. It doesn't.

MT means the tank that you want taking the majority of the hits. PLD and DRK fit this role better because they have bonuses that they only get while being hit (sheltron, shield swipe, blood price, reprisal). Outside of vengeance, WAR does not gain anything from being hit. WAR also gets offensive use out of its CDs that DRK and PLD do not (wrath stacks), so it's better if the WAR can use CDs on demand rather than having to save them for strategic points like tank busters.

You get a WAR doing 1900 DPS and a DRK doing 1850, instead of a WAR doing 2000 and a DRK doing 1500. Likewise, with healers, when responsibilities are shared, both healers can do 7-800 DPS as opposed to one doing 1000 and the other doing 2-300 or even none.

Being the MT doesn't reduce your damage dealt, a good tank can tank any fight in this game without tank stance as long as the party is managing enmity properly. A good PLD and DRK in the MT slot does MORE damage than they could in the OT slot due to aforementioned procs.

[SyzzleSpark]

Just because a WAR pulls doesn't make them MT, you can pull to generate spike enmity then trade off and still be considered the OT. You seem to be under the impression that labelling the tanks as MT and OT means one always in tank stance and the other never tanking except adds. It doesn't.

This is not at all what I described.

If a WAR tanks the boss even only for a small portion of the fight...When the PLD or DRK swaps off the WAR, they inherit all of that aggro...

I specifically mentioned WAR tanking only a small portion of the fight i.e. the opener, and their co-tank inheriting their aggro upon taunting the boss, with no need for tank stance.

MT means the tank that you want taking the majority of the hits. PLD and DRK fit this role better because they have bonuses that they only get while being hit (sheltron, shield swipe, blood price, reprisal). Outside of vengeance, WAR does not gain anything from being hit. WAR also gets offensive use out of its CDs that DRK and PLD do not (wrath stacks), so it's better if the WAR can use CDs on demand rather than having to save them for strategic points like tank busters.

I fully understand that the act of pulling does not make you the MT. What I am saying is that having a defined MT/OT and entrenching oneself in that mentality is detrimental. There is no MT or OT in this game. All tanks have bonuses that they get from getting hit in some form or fashion. Yes, DRKs and PLDs like to tank for procs, but again, zerk Vengeance procs are also a DPS gain.

Also your thoughts about WAR losing out on Fell Cleave stacks by having to waste its defensive CDs on tank busters is flawed. See this A12S tank CD rotation provided by Bokchoy @ https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...g_with_a_dark/

First Punishing Heat: WAR (Holmgang)
Second Punishing Heat: DRK (Living Dead)
After Temporal Stasis #1: WAR (Holmgang)
After Temporal Stasis #2: DRK (Shadowskin + Dark Mind)
During Timegate: DRK (Shadow Wall + Dark Mind)
After Inception #1: WAR (Holmgang)
After Inception #2: DRK (Shadowskin + Dark Mind)
First Chastening Heat: DRK (Living Dead)
Second Chastening Heat: WAR (Everything)

Holmgang for pretty much everything. If you really didn't want to use Holmgang, Thrill+Conva and an Adlo would easily take a Punishing Heat, if you dropped very low for whatever reason, you have Equilibrium.

Ideally, there should be no "tank you want taking the majority of the hits". If you swap regularly and don't make the boss a single tank's responsibility for 90% of the fight, it increases raid DPS, and requires less healing.

Being the MT doesn't reduce your damage dealt, a good tank can tank any fight in this game without tank stance as long as the party is managing enmity properly. A good PLD and DRK in the MT slot does MORE damage than they could in the OT slot due to aforementioned procs.

And yes, I also know that being the "MT" doesn't reduce your damage dealt. But you mention managing enmity and part of that is having the WAR tank the boss at certain points of the fight to maintenance aggro. Yes you have Shadewalker, but if you have a MNK in the party a skilled DRK will still have to Power Slash a few times to babysit their enmity assuming Smokescreen is saved for a healer. Or you may not have a NIN at all. In this case, having the WAR take the boss for several combos aids enmity generation particularly if it is during their zerk window (during which they can offer additional DPS gains by popping Vengeance).

I love Reprisal procs and MP as much as the next DRK, but I also understand that I'm not the only player in a given group. A swap placed immediately after applying Reprisal for instance would mitigate damage for the WAR while he tanks the boss for a minute, for instance. If Blood Price is also on cooldown at this point, then I'm suffering very little loss. Blood Price is also rarely saved just for tanking, as any source of AoE damage is a potential MP proc that is literally free mana assuming you aren't going to be tanking for the following 40 seconds.