Compromise: Just Charge $5 For Now. Once 2.0 is Out, Then Charge $12

[Rowyne]

Well, if it needs to be specifically said, I'll say it.

I'll seriously consider staying until 2.0 at a reduced fee. Other incentives, such as suggesting free buddy passes or free trials that we will not receive until 2.0 won't work for me. I don't have any friends that I can convince to play the game in this state, they've all left. And giving me a bonus at 2.0 is asking me to trust that I will enjoy something in the future, not something I'm paying for now.

At the very least, can this not wait until after the job system is implemented? I play nothing but main healers in MMOs, and to be honest, I've felt very unfulfilled in that role as a Conjurer. I watch my friends get excited over things like Pugilist, saying that it feels like a good old fashioned street brawl, but I look at my class and sigh. I know that White Mage is coming, but I'd like the chance to try it out and know that I'll finally feel good as a healer in FFXIV before I'm expected to pay.

[AmyRae]

Honestly, I don't find 2.0 relevant at all for the discussion. Yes, I realize that it's the new benchmark of what FFXIV is supposed to be since it's the reboot and all, but again, if improvements warrant price changes, every patch should make the previous version discounted. And it seems like you're justifying what is essentially a really huge patch to say that because this particular improvement is so big, the price should reflect that change. And I simply don't agree with that.

The price you are willing to pay for something should be based on your level of enjoyment, and nothing else. You're not going to be doubly enjoying the game because it's called 2.0, so there's no reason to charge half the price in the mean time.



The amount of money you're willing to pay to play the game is personal, regardless of how much you try to justify it with how many other people feel the same way. I'm making it personal to try and separate the two different points you are trying to argue as a single thing: if the game is worth the full subscription price, and if it makes more sense for SE to charge half for no other reason than the fact that they would make more money.



Case in point: this is argument #1. It's your personal reason. Now, normally, I wouldn't buy this reason for the simple fact that you've been around so long, and you're here on the forums arguing about it.. you must care more than your discounted rate would imply. But I've seen enough of your posts that I can accept the unusual balance of these two seemingly conflicted views. So, the question remains: is this reason good enough for SE to change their price? Well, no, not really. If it's worth the price to you, then it is, and if not, oh well. A single individual doesn't hurt SE's bottom line so much. What it really comes down to is this:



This is argument #2. It has nothing to do with argument #1. Not in a logically-following way, at least. But it's basically the argument of how many people feel as you do, and how SE can benefit from finding some kind of middle ground. And that's arguable, but it's also provable. If anything, request a real poll be done instead of asking for a discount because of some random poll on a single website which wasn't even worded in such a way as to get real information from it said people like to pay less.

But here's a nice summary of what ruins the whole thread for me:



Let me get this straight: until 2.0 comes out, this should be a democracy, and the people should choose their price for the benefit of all. But once 2.0 hits, no one cares how much you enjoy the game, or if the number of subscribers would make up for the difference in price, you pay what they say you pay.

Come on. You obviously don't really care about what kind of business sense it makes for SE to charge less if you're in favour of full price at 2.0. You're just using the launch of a big revision as an excuse to say that what we have now is worth less. At least, that's the way it looks when you frame it like you have been. It's inconsistent, and that undermines any point you could make about how much should be charged for the next year.

Willful ignorance that this has nothing to do with 2.0 doesn't suit you. You're merely using it as a crutch to make your faulty case more convincing.

There's no question 2.0 is a superior product, one which addresses many of the issues that are incurable in 1.0. Version 2.0 will make the PS3 version a success with critical acclaim. To launch the PS3 version with 1.0 would doom FFXIV to irreparable failure.

And yet this faulty product is what we're expected to pay full price for now. Perhaps some will be okay with that, but I have to tell you, it will chase away the vast majority who have a proper sense of value.

[Starlord]

Yes. I still would have made it. The same cost/benefit analysis done by all consumers happens once there is an actual price affixed to any given product. This game is no different. The genesis for this thread was the announcement of billing + the BG interview, not what you assume it is.


Nope. Yoshida said what he said. I didn't take anything out of context. You'll notice that I didn't even use that particular quote of his at all in my OP.

Also notice that I referred specifically to the Blue Gartr interview and the SE official answer about how they are approaching the situation of the perception that customers are playing full price for an incomplete game.

Once you have talked to every person on every server about how they feel about paying full price for the game or what they would feel for a discounted price. This Thread amounts to nothing on what your trying to accomplish.

- Forum Polls
- The same 20- 30 people fighting over this debate
- and this thread is starting to get out of hand
- people are taking words and not the full post of what people say and twist words around

All these things amount to nothing because there isn't a strong base of people on the forums for you to justify that what you say is correct. You can't tell me or other people what's and incomplete game, only the person themselves can say that.

and I don't Particular care for the BG site but that's my view on it. So until you can find more of a " backbone" to support your Theory, then this thread all together amounts to nothing.

[AamesxDavid]

There's no question 2.0 is a superior product

Speculation.

Version 2.0 will make the PS3 version a success with critical acclaim.

Speculation.

To launch the PS3 version with 1.0 would doom FFXIV to irreparable failure.

Speculation.

it will chase away the vast majority

Speculation.

Is this the "because I said so" argument? Making absolute statements about something that won't even be finished for another year. Even if all of it were true, how does it follow that 2.0 should disregard the fact that they may be able to get more subscribers by charging less? That was my "faulty argument", was it not?

This is disappointing. You seemed so reasonable up until this post. Now you sound like a Jehovah's Witness for the second coming of FFXIV.

[Rentahamster]

All these things amount to nothing because there isn't a strong base of people on the forums for you to justify that what you say is correct.

Does this line of reasoning also apply to what you say is correct? If not, please explain.

[Buddhsie]

I feel I represent the interests of a silent majority who don't show up on the forums or play FFXIV that much out of their current level of enjoyment of the game.

Yeah, just like every other person on the forums claims >_>.

Seriously though, every reply you dodge the fact that the money generated between 1.20 and 2.0 is only for the content developed and implemented between those times to keep the current paying players happy, because the game is up to a standard that deserves to be paid for. This is of course the opinion of the dev team, not you and your apparant voiceless minority.

[Starlord]

Does this line of reasoning also apply to what you say is correct? If not, please explain.

Forums= 5% of the current playerbase ( roughly)
Forums= 3% of them say discount price
Forums= 2% of them say Full price
Game= 95% left unheard

Once you have the other 95% answers then you have a backbone to support your ground

Has nothing to do with right or wrong, Its has to do with getting your facts first before shouting a claim

[AmyRae]

Speculation.

Speculation.

Speculation.

Speculation.

Is this the "because I said so" argument? Making absolute statements about something that won't even be finished for another year. Even if all of it were true, how does it follow that 2.0 should disregard the fact that they may be able to get more subscribers by charging less? That was my "faulty argument", was it not?

This is disappointing. You seemed so reasonable up until this post. Now you sound like a Jehovah's Witness for the second coming of FFXIV.

You seemed reasonable yourself until you spent the majority of your prose on ad hominems against one such as I. I guess everyone is equally disappointed.

My claims towards 2.0 are not mere speculation. It's grounded in the reasons provided by Yoshida himself.

I apologize for the belated nature of my next announcement, but as significant updates to the game have been released over the last ten months, a portion of the team has also been simultaneously devoted to working solely on the new FINAL FANTASY XIV. This is an essential part of the process of realizing the ideal we have envisioned. Planning for the new FINAL FANTASY XIV began in January of this year, and April saw the start of large-scale tasks. Since then, however, we have made no compromises in the game’s operation and updates. I believe this is evident if you review the contents of the updates that have been released thus far.

Every resource possible has gone into this year’s patches. The ideal that we have for FINAL FANTASY XIV, however, is extremely high, and we are aware that all of the following changes are still required to achieve the desired quality of service—redesign and restructuring of server layout and operation, overhaul of the user interface, reworking the design and specs of in-game areas, and vast upgrades to the player community systems.

That last part is what we're getting in 2.0, what 1.0 can't do, what releasing 1.0 as the PS3 version would immediately be picked up on by critics as to why it's not good enough to be considered a first-class MMO, and what should have been a part of the game from the beginning.

And it's definitely not speculation to think most people will leave FFXI once full fees for 1.0 resume. Polls on the BG site (who have some of the most hardcore FFXI players, who produce free software mods for the community to use at no cost) are showing that most will leave. If those dedicated hardcore players are going to leave in droves, imagine what the casual community is prepared to do? And yet, if a discount were offered, much of that opinion would be reversed. What a wasted opportunity this could turn out to be to keep the player base that has been cultivated this long.

[Buddhsie]

You seemed reasonable yourself until you spent the majority of your prose on ad hominems against one such as I. I guess everyone is equally disappointed.

My claims towards 2.0 are not mere speculation. It's grounded in the reasons provided by Yoshida himself.



That last part is what we're getting in 2.0, what 1.0 can't do, what releasing 1.0 as the PS3 version would immediately be picked up on by critics as to why it's not good enough to be considered a first-class MMO, and what should have been a part of the game from the beginning.

And it's definitely not speculation to think most people will leave FFXI once full fees for 1.0 resume. Polls on the BG site (who have some of the most hardcore FFXI players, who produce free software mods for the community to use at no cost) are showing that most will leave. If those dedicated hardcore players are going to leave in droves, imagine what the casual community is prepared to do? And yet, if a discount were offered, much of that opinion would be reversed. What a wasted opportunity this could turn out to be to keep the player base that has been cultivated this long.

Regardless of who leaves, V2.0 will be implemented. This is fact.
A very very high percentage of those who leave now will be back for V2.0, it's no skin off anyone's back.

I don't see how you can continue to post, it's like whipping a dead horse.

[Physic]

Willful ignorance that this has nothing to do with 2.0 doesn't suit you. You're merely using it as a crutch to make your faulty case more convincing.

There's no question 2.0 is a superior product, one which addresses many of the issues that are incurable in 1.0. Version 2.0 will make the PS3 version a success with critical acclaim. To launch the PS3 version with 1.0 would doom FFXIV to irreparable failure.

And yet this faulty product is what we're expected to pay full price for now. Perhaps some will be okay with that, but I have to tell you, it will chase away the vast majority who have a proper sense of value.

I think there is a misunderstanding here, and i have heard many people say it, this idea that anything before 2.0 is a waste of time.

Here is what the situation is.

A business has decided to start selling you their product after offering a free trial, or for a closer analogy, a free period while they adjust the product.

Who is anyone here to demand a free product? why should anyone be required to work for free? You place no value on all the peoples time, the concept artists, musicians creative people who worked hard to bring you this project?

If you feel this game has no value right now, then you should not play it right now, its really very simple. The fact is whether you like it or not, money time and energy are being put into this game currently. They arent asking you to pay a monthly fee while they do nothing for 12 months, they are asking you to pay a monthly fee while they develop and implement real content. They are also only asking you to pay said fee, for as long as you enjoy that content. You can sub for 1 month, you can come back 6 months from now.

They arent doing anything unreasonable by saying, if you want to enjoy this product, then give us money to continue making this product.

though there was a long period of non development i would say that we will get at least 2-3 months of real development for our box price, IMO when it becomes p2p in december at some point after patch 1.2 then they will have at the very least given people a fair value for thier money of the box price.


So now it comes down to this, and this is where i think this discussion serves a purpose, to find the best price point /incentives etc to maximize profits, and help fund the game.

This thread has some value in discussing what different people expect, how much they should charge, etc, but i dont think they should consider for a moment the reasoning that the current game has no value, because if they decide that, then they should just shut down the servers, and i personally would rather have the option to buy the product and play it, rather than not.


long story short
they have repaid the promise of the game box
they have a product that will cost money to implement, and are selling their development
they should try to make some sort of profit as long as they are spending money on development
If you dont have an idea that in some way leads to them making a profitable product, then you are wasting time