So I'm not seeing how this is them changing things up from 2.0/3.0

[Berethos]

You should come play Legion then. Majority of the dungeons are as linear as FFXIV dungeons.

Definitely agree.

As one who cut their MMO teeth on dungeons like the original LBRS, UBRS, and BRD...

WoW hasn't had the huge dungeons for years. Often fun, yes, though I personally find both to be equal in terms of fun on boss fights.

As linear as FFXIV for the most part and have been for years. Occasionally you get a choice on which boss to tackle first or maybe a fight in an arena where the fights come to you, but it's largely the hallway design and has been since Burning Crusade.

[Talraen]

Anyone pining for larger dungeons with multiple routes and such would do well to read the threads about speed runners in Palace of the Dead. Go into a matched party looking to explore and get silver chests, and see what happens. Sure, sometimes you'll be able to, but generally people play that content exactly one way, ignoring a large amount of the content that exists in it. This will always happen in dungeons. I would like sprawling dungeons full of exploration, too, but I know exactly how that will play out. Those dungeons will quickly be reduced to a linear corridor for speed runs. So that's what dungeons are now designed as, and they should be. To do more is going to waste dev time and cause fights among the player base.

Or, to put it more bluntly, you will never get what you want. If the devs try to give it to you, the players will take it away. You're only asking for disappointment.

[Vexander]

Or, to put it more bluntly, you will never get what you want. If the devs try to give it to you, the players will take it away. You're only asking for disappointment.

Don't think I've ever seen it put more accurately before.

[Kaonis]

Instead of an expansion like Baldurs Gate 2 -> Throne of Bhaal, some people expect it to be like Baldurs Gate -> Dragon Age (and whenever I hear formula change I think of DA->DA2, urgh).

An Expansion is Diablo2->Lord of Destruction and not Diablo2->Diablo3 or Starcraft->Broodwar and not Starcraft-Starcraft2.

This is what irks me, as it's a misrepresentation of what people asking for. People are asking for more of something along the lines of FFXI -> ToAU -> WoTG -> SoA.

What people want is the same sort of innovation and creativity those expansions brought. WoTG is a great example I think, as it was themed around war, had the campaign system, and had different activities that revolved around it from a guildleve-like daily system in the main cities to actual battles to hold/take forts. And this is on a PS2 game nearly a decade ago.

People are looking at FFXI and how they added new activities in the expansions, and asking for those sorts of changes. And given that these are 2 games from the same company it's fairly frustrating to see such a stark contrast in game design between the 2.

[Moonlite]

Or, you could say the patches are mini expansions.

While I do consider some patches of real high quality (a new job that isn't a cash shop add). You could also say they intentionally leave stuff out of the expansion to fluff up patches. 3.1 as long as the wait was should have been part of 3.0. Do you really think TWO max level dungeons and no RAID and no BG is an expansion.

[Yun_Tsuri]

Forgive me for being harsh, but after reading this, I received two impressions from you.

1) "New content isn't New content unless its content I'm interested in! SE should only update the parts of the game I enjoy!"
2) "How dare everyone have the opportunity to earn gear and enjoy every part of the game?! These peasants should not have the option to be able to stand next to me, just beneath me as I stand around AFK being admired with my Raid Gear that requires 12 hours a day of playtime commitment!"

It's ok but why do you think so?
Glamour and casual contents should be part of the game, yes, but as optional contents.
Challenging ones such raids (which includes their design with an epic plot with dungeons and bosses - and extra care for the battle system), ways harder main scenario quest (with people hitting their head on the wall for a couple of months before completing it, organising themselves as community, instead of running to A and B with the usual boring zerg here and there) and especially rare and unique gear only elite players have access to - something the rest can work on it and slowly getting there, too, with time, a fair amount of skill and dedication (months, years, not hours).
While I spend my time (and even money with fantasia pots, trust me), I don't want to look cool. I don't care about what people think of my glamour ("Oh, look that guy what a cool glamour!"). I want strong gear to aim for ("..oh god, this guy weapon' stats. I want it too!"). I want gils and raids being useful to obtain these achievements (and I am not talking about a +2 weapon damage, I am talking about a completely different thing which makes a player on another level of gameplay compared to the casual ones). Take the relic system we have now - the worst end game weapon system in MMORPG history in my opinion - putting an effort (because of spamming old contents is boring, not because it's hard or even new) for a glamour piece (and it also becomes the best weapon in game by following the flow - aka getting new boring quests here and there - because we get no raids for months, rofl). It should be already better if we had to clear the hardest actual raid floor in order to get an item we'd need for the relic itself, with a proper exclusive quest (expensive one when it comes to gils, with hard and exclusive bosses / raid floors to clear or simply an alternative content like Nyzul in FFXI and no, not PotD, for god' sake). A weapon which doesn't get old within a patch but it's going to last for a while.

Lot of creative stuff to do - SE has both the man power and the money for it, they're just lazy as fuck. Heavensward reached 14M € budget, and it's a loop of old contents we already knew. Now we have 35M € set on Stormblood, I am hoping for the best but I am expecting nothing different or innovative from this.

[Ririta]

something the rest can work on it and slowly getting there, too, with time, a fair amount of skill and dedication (months, years, not hours).

Or "the rest" can just quit and go play a game that's less torturing.

[Vexander]

It's ok but why do you think so?

Ririta more or less summarized my thoughts. What you describe is an extremely punishing system. It excludes players from a lot of the content, and game developers should be developing content to be -accessible-, not catered to an extremely small niche population of players. I remember when Chains of Promathia came out for FFXI, I could not for the life of me get to the new continent because of the difficulty of the content before it. An entire -linkshell- of people could not do it. A small elite subset of players were the only ones getting to the new continent (Tavnazia, was it?), and it was extraordinarily discouraging for the rest of us to have essentially paid for an expansion we couldn't play.

At the time, I did not go to the forums to complain. I just stopped playing FFXI altogether at that point. I moved on to World of Warcraft. When WoW began to grate on my nerves I stopped playing that and moved on to GW2, Minecraft, etc... Then I saw FFXIV, remembered trying the 1.0 beta, and decided to give it another try.

Imagine my delight when the game was a complete reversal from the hot mess that was FFXI when I last played it. I've not stopped playing FFXIV since I gave it another try, and I have not been disappointed. I -like- knowing I can do just about anything, help friends and FC members out. There are still parts of the game I will NOT touch (PvP and Savage/Extreme content), and I am happy to leave that content to the players who enjoy it.

As cliche as this is going to sound, if you really don't like FFXIV the way it is, if you -really- want a game where the average player won't be able to measure up to the hardcore player in terms of accessible content, then maybe this isn't the game for you. If SE decided to -make- this the game for you, I'd just cancel my sub and move on, as I'm sure others would.

[Ultimatecalibur]

3.1 as long as the wait was should have been part of 3.0. Do you really think TWO max level dungeons and no RAID and no BG is an expansion.

Gordias (NM) was added 2 weeks after release in 3.01 and both Gordias Savage and Frontlines: Sealed Rock were added in 3.05 alongside the Eso tomestones 2 weeks after that. They were slightly delayed in order to not make players rush to get to 60. The things you complain about 3.0 missing were actually there.

[Moonlite]

Gordias (NM) was added 2 weeks after release in 3.01 and both Gordias Savage and Frontlines: Sealed Rock were added in 3.05 alongside the Eso tomestones 2 weeks after that. They were slightly delayed in order to not make players rush to get to 60. The things you complain about 3.0 missing were actually there.

Two weeks plus two weeks they used to "VACATION" and put off 3.1. Hmm they were not in 3.0 or they would have been playable at launch. But keep defending the whole 3.0 to 3.1. Nothing says fun like Aether and Neverreap for almost 4 weeks.