I'm calling it the Epidemic. (This is a rant, if you dont wanna hear it, don't click)

[Faliandra]

Here's why players contribute to the 'Epidemic' the OP describes:

No Personal Responsibility.

From us. The whole FFXIV community. Its our fault.

Look at the various threads on this subject. They'll throw their hands up and blame the devs for not putting in tutorials, not putting in gear checks, not putting in soulstone requirements, not putting in whatever. The reason we make claims like that is because we're too damned lazy to do something ourselves. And yes, there is something we can do. Its called Vote kick.

Oh.. but that's such a mean and bullying thing to do. Yeah lazy players who do know what they should be doing but don't are the real bullies. And its time the playerbase actually did something about it. Its fine when people make mistakes. Sometimes we forget a poison, forget an oath, forget defiance, or whatever. It happens. A friendly reminder is all that's needed. But if that reminder isn't heeded, send'm back the queue.

Healers and Tanks are expendable. When you've dismissed one of these you are at the front of the queue for replacements. Many decent tanks and healers have the setting to join in progress. They'll be happy to pick up where the leech left off.

But there's your real problem. People leeching. People just grinding out so they can make their make believe numbers higher with as little effort needed. If they don't want to spend time in the dungeon. Oblige them with a quick exit.

If you're worried about people reporting for 'abuse' its easy to deal with. Don't argue with people. Don't attack them. Just give them the 'friendly' and 'polite' nudge/reminder, and when they get uppity or sarcastic with you, or simply ignore. Give'm the boot without a word. Without verbal abuse as evidence GM cannot and will not take action.

And don't be a derp and actually boot a newbie. If you're getting a bonus for someone new, be gracious for that and cut them some slack. If you're in a pre 30 dungeon and people seem to be lost. Guide them. Just don't take flak (because even newbies sometimes have bad apples).

At the end of the day, we have the ultimate control. Lets use it. Lets take responsibility ourselves. Its a little click, a patient wait for replacement, and someone will eventually get a hint.

This. This so much.
Where can I sign?

I'm honestly getting tired of hearing people say "cant really do anything about lazy players". Yea you can?
I dont know why so many people feel that votekicking is off limits and such a mean thing to do.

Even a lazy person doesnt wanna keep queueing up just to be kicked again. It's only worthwhile to slack if people let you get through with this.

[kupokage]

The only epidemic is the playerbase defending the MNK in Sohm HM with an Antiquated i170 and the WHM with crafting gear in Haukke NM healing through Cleric Stance.

You nip the no-Heavy-Thrusting-Cleric-Stance-Healing-no-Provoke-cross-skill-equipping-tanking behavior in the bud early on. Im talking before they get to Ifirit NM. You didn't, now we're complaining about it in post Praetorium dungeons. Blame the White Knights.

I got better at tanking because I got yelled at for not flashing enough, watching aggro and rotating mobs in Cutters Cry. "S**tty tank..." "Wtf Tank!" Etc. It was a wake up call. I did fine up to that point I thought. It was embarressing and i wanted to get better. Needed to. If I had been told I was "doing Ok" i would not have the desire to "git gud" because I didnt get yelled at.

"I thought I sucked. But the party said I did good"

/rant

[Leigaon]

I'm sorry you went through this, and I do see some of the same things. It's not just the game and it's not just the players, they're both to blame to an extent.

The game itself has plenty of teachings to have you get use to your job and learn. Just that these are optional and can be skipped. Some of these content options need to be revised so people can get better.

For me it's hard to imagine someone going "Oh man I want to play this job" only to go in blindly and never reading tool-tips. These jobs are not that hard to understand, just sit back and read on your phone / pc during some downtime. These jobs aren't hard to understand, it's getting use to doing it over and over that might mess you up.

So for example, you're a Pug, you go in do your initial quest, grab some on the way outside. These quests are just beating mobs but are meant to get you use to hitting that button, perfect. Now if you read the tool tips you'd see you do an attack for 150 potency, you go into Raptor and you can't get into Opo-opo. So really all you have to do is hit the button. You're beating on mobs and taking them down so it's fun to be overpowered, you do a few quests that you grabbed on the way out and you're level 5.

You read the tool-tip you start to see the connection with skills. Eventually you unlock Guildhests, and take on Under the Armor. This is where the game encourages bad player behavior. The Brockman dies quickly so if the PUG is doing something wrong like positions, it won't matter. The adds come in and do nothing, as a new player you may panic and go for them only to have someone go "Just focus on the boss". While this is true, it's also making player learn to ignore mechanics, so if it works here it should work anywhere. Brockman uses his aoe, it does some damage but nothing major. This teaches the new player that if I get hit it's okay.

They take this into their first dungeon Sastasha and ignore the adds and bubbles rising, burning the boss because it was taught to them from the game and players and turns out to be true..just burn. From there it's a downward spiral depending on the player.

Now this isn't including everyone, this is an example from common flaws I see with new players. When if the game enforced a challenge a bit more, then these situations could be avoided. Problem is making them harder could make them longer and when you grind for so long you get more annoyed with life. This game requires you to repeat enough as it is. Personally I think doing the following would encourage players to seek out these optional ways of learning but maybe I'm overlooking something?

* Make the mechanics noticeable and punishing - For Under the Armor, have the adds perform aoe's that take player HP and heal the boss and themselves. If you get so many adds you'll end up dying. Or have each add give a DEF / ATK bonus to the big guy. Apply this to dungeons.

* Make the class quests give you instances or trials that put your skills to the test. The Gladiator one had a quest Ul'dah's Most Wanted. If I didn't defend that NPC, he died too quickly. So I went from just doing damage to taking it. It took me a few tries. Lets say for bards, their 30 quest a Giga comes out in the quest, starts pummeling everyone, the mages can cure but only so much..luckily they have you to use ballad. Teach them to restore MP for those who have none whether it's b/c they can't manage or there have been too many raises..

It's sort of a road block but at the same time it's encouraging. Yes you need to do the class quest but you also want to. Yes you need to do the dungeon but you also want to, which to me is different than saying "Want to go into Sastasha? Pass my trial first." Of course you hope that these people go from dying and not performing to reading and doing their side of the deal, and get better.

[Lelila38]

Main problem is that the game actually encourages players to not give their best. Dungeons are face-roll easy, you get high ilvl gear thrown at you left and right, gearing up requires zero skill, only time investment.
And once a dungeon/boss/... is realeased with a bit of a challenging mechanic, people start whining about it and it gets nerfed to the ground.

If the game would put us into a situation where we have to use our tool kit effectively to advance for a change (and ignore the cries that are sure to come), people would have no choice but to bother with learning how to play their class. Sadly this is never going to happen, as the game is too focused on pleasing everyone. Being beginner friendly was ok during the first couple dungeons, but hey, by now people aren't beginners anymore, they can deal with a bit more challenging encounters. If they actually designed something like this, they might be surprised.

[akaneakki]

Wanderer's Minuet isn't a 30% DPS gain, it's actually only like 10% or so at the cost of your mobility. Generally doesn't matter, but there's plenty of bosses that are easier with it being off and only toggled on to take advantage of the few buttons it enables.

You certainly leave it on the entire fight until you need to move for a while. Either way this is dungeons, can you please tell me what there is to dodge besides 1-2 circle aoes? C'mon that's a bad reply.
I would only take the stance off if a lot of movement was required, like seph extreme, I would take it off when you stack near blue puddles where you get smashed 3 times. Yes it's not really 30% but you talk about movements are a huge problem for BRDS. Have you seen the great BLM's? They move much as they have to, same goes to BRD. But anyways this person talked about dungeons, so there is not a lot of stuff going on haha.

Not to mention what this person said:

Factor in lack of iron jaws and sidewinder. Plus a straight 30% increase in dmg to bloodletter, straighter shot procs blunt arrow repelling shot, flaming arrow and your dot ticks it a huuuge deal.

[Laerune]

My personal pet peeve is when players do not use their damage, defensive, healing cooldowns or even worse skills like Virus and Heavy Thrust. There are alot of skills that increase slashing, piercing etc.The Disembowel skill from the Dragoon, increase damage dealt by Dragoons, Bards, Machinist and their turrents. Yet often I see Dragoons not use this skill.

When was the last time you have seen a White Mage cast Presence of Mind?


Presence of Mind : Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by 20%. for 15 seconds.

[Baguette9]

Have you considered getting good?

[bardaboo]

You certainly leave it on the entire fight until you need to move for a while. Either way this is dungeons, can you please tell me what there is to dodge besides 1-2 circle aoes? C'mon that's a bad reply.
I would only take the stance off if a lot of movement was required, like seph extreme, I would take it off when you stack near blue puddles where you get smashed 3 times. Yes it's not really 30% but you talk about movements are a huge problem for BRDS. Have you seen the great BLM's? They move much as they have to, same goes to BRD. But anyways this person talked about dungeons, so there is not a lot of stuff going on haha.

Not to mention what this person said:

Bah i made an oopsie. Sidewinder is available w/o Wanderer's but again 30% less. It's emperyal arrow you can't use, which is a big one. Especially when you want a newer bard to kearn how it works with the rest of their gcds and the cast time clipping. Ooh i also forgot misery end, all those off gcd moves that can be used while moving.

[akaneakki]

Bah i made an oopsie. Sidewinder is available w/o Wanderer's but again 30% less. It's emperyal arrow you can't use, which is a big one. Especially when you want a newer bard to kearn how it works with the rest of their gcds and the cast time clipping. Ooh i also forgot misery end, all those off gcd moves that can be used while moving.

Yup, but you have to consider the auto attacks are gone so dps ''loss'' from there. However, like you said, the person have to get used to the things. I've met brds 60 where they refuse to use the stance too

[Faliandra]

The only epidemic is the playerbase defending the MNK in Sohm HM with an Antiquated i170 and the WHM with crafting gear in Haukke NM healing through Cleric Stance.

You nip the no-Heavy-Thrusting-Cleric-Stance-Healing-no-Provoke-cross-skill-equipping-tanking behavior in the bud early on. Im talking before they get to Ifirit NM. You didn't, now we're complaining about it in post Praetorium dungeons. Blame the White Knights.

I got better at tanking because I got yelled at for not flashing enough, watching aggro and rotating mobs in Cutters Cry. "S**tty tank..." "Wtf Tank!" Etc. It was a wake up call. I did fine up to that point I thought. It was embarressing and i wanted to get better. Needed to. If I had been told I was "doing Ok" i would not have the desire to "git gud" because I didnt get yelled at.

"I thought I sucked. But the party said I did good"

/rant

I will agree with this too. I am actually not sure whats worse: Lazy players or people enabling that kind of behaviour.
When I lvled my last 3-4 classes to 60 during the last few months, I noticed this quite a few times.

One example I still remember very well is Dzemael where I was a dragoon and our AST healer didnt seem to play any cards.
So I kept an eye on the healer for about 10 minutes to see if shes using ANY cards. And nope, she didnt.
I then really really carefully asked her why ("hey xy, I noticed you arent playing any cards, may I ask you why?")
and got a reply that was something along the lines of "Oh I know ^^ im just keeping them for bosses"
....But she didnt play any cards before bosses to prepare and didnt play any during the boss either. So I asked again why she isnt playing cards.

Then the tank interfered "dude, just leave her be,it doesnt interfere with the dungeon progress"

AST was like: "they arent really needed here anyway" and also followed up with a "I play how I want ^^"

So when I confronted the tank why hes enabling lazy behaviour,he came up with "Maybe shes still learning?"

And thats where I lost all faith. Apparently people learn how to use their skills by not using them. /facepalm

I mean that AST wasnt 60 yet, but she had 2-3 other lvl 60 characters and all I wanted her is to TRY.
If youre not gonna play cards ever cos "theyre not needed" (<-- technically,theyre not needed ANYWHERE...), play a WHM, not an AST. Simple.
My votekick was rejected because these other people were whiteknighting her, which I would understand if they were friends, but
I checked their lodestones...they were all from different servers with zero connections whatsoever.

I remember when I was lvling my first class, conjurer. And yeah, I was dumb.
I was a conjurer till lvl 37, and once i became a whm, spamming regen on tanks was my favorite thing to do.
Why did I become a whm at lvl 37 at last? Cos people yelled at me.
to be fair,the game made it look quite OPTIONAL to become whm/lvl arcanist to 15, so I thought I could do it later...and that was misleading to me.
Game should put a wall in front of you and be like "u do dis naow or gtfo"...but well,the playerbase managed to take care of that.
They also yelled at me for putting Regen on tanks too soon.

So yeah...I was an utter noob. The difference is: I LISTENED. I didnt go all defensive "how dare you tell me how to play".
Maybe some of them couldve been nicer,but yeah. Either way, it helped. And thats how it should be. Be a clueless noob,but if someone
is trying to help: take their advice and dont turn it down.

When was the last time you have seen a White Mage cast Presence of Mind?


Presence of Mind : Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by 20%. for 15 seconds.

Ive seen it on a whm just yesterday. Oh wait, that was me. \o/
No,but seriously though, you're right, not many people use it. I mainly use it to increase my dps.
I do remember though,when I was a newbie,that I hardly ever used it ...I was generally very careful with healer cooldowns because "I need to keep all of these for an emergency. If i use them now, sh*t will go down right after it and it wont be ready"
I needed to learn that CDs arent always meant to be kept for emergencies...and that process took me a while.