Why are summoners so neglected?

[Silkerin]

I kinda feel like they could remove Egi as pets completely...

to remove egis they would need then to introduce in the same expansion an actual pet job, which, it seems wont ever happen because they are afraid people will be bad with it.

and i doubt they would ever rework a class so much again like they did with warrior

[Nalien]

to remove egis they would need then to introduce in the same expansion an actual pet job, which, it seems wont ever happen because they are afraid people will be bad with it.

Hey! We still have Scholar and (to a far lesser degree) Machinist!

But yeah, like I said, too much work to bother with really, best bet is hoping they rebalance the pets to have clearly defined roles... Do hope they'll eventually give us more pet Jobs though... We finally have three Jobs for every stat (bar Piety), I need a Vitality Pet Job and Strength Pet Job to be satisfied at this point... Beastmaster could make a nice tank, with the pet doubling as MT/OT stance, having the Beastmaster tank with the pet getting stuff like Cover for mitigation... Not sure about a Strength Job though... Strength based Necromancer? Might be too similar in theme to Dark Knight, but also might satisfy those who wanted DPS Dark Knight... Perfect for a Scythe wielding Job really...

[Khaidal]

I have a question thats been sitting with me for a long time.

Why is it when summoner gets complaints that you and a lot of others instantly jump to the power of the class and how you dont want FF11? Since like summoner was not invented by 11 though it was influenced in style by 11.

One would think that if people wanted to stay as far away from FF11 like it was the plague they would agree to returning to classic forms which leaves me confused to these responses.

I think people are bringing up FFXI because so many people are asking for a pet focused job. One where you send out the pet and it's the main source of damage, not the player character. For myself, with limited MMO experience, this would be FFXI pet jobs (BST, SMN, etc)

[FeliAiko]

I kinda feel like they could remove Egi as pets completely... Would completely destroy any comparison to XI, just replace the Summon skills with their respective Egi abilities...

I had an idea like this once, except the Carbuncles (i.e. Summon I and II) would stay. Instead, Summon III becomes Flaming Crush (works like Fester, while a buffed Tri-Bind becomes the L35 skill), L40 gives you a Titan-themed skill, and L50 gives you Aerial Blast. That then leaves Spur as the L45 skill (but I'd change it to do something else, in order to differentiate it from Rouse). Since the Carbys would still be around you won't lose Contagion (Shining Wizard in this case) and you still get a Tank-type for solo stuff.

[Ririta]

I think people are bringing up FFXI because so many people are asking for a pet focused job. One where you send out the pet and it's the main source of damage, not the player character. For myself, with limited MMO experience, this would be FFXI pet jobs (BST, SMN, etc)

Personally when I think of a pet job I think of beast mastery hunters and unholy death knights where your rotation empowered the pet.

[Silverquick]

I think they just need to make a whole new job called "Beastmaster"... because that appears to be what some of you want...

You some of you don't want the classic Final Fantasy Summoner... you want a Beastmaster instead... or a Petmaster class.

Those are not Classic FF Summoner or Summons.

On top of that those will wreck the current Summoner job in a way that will torque off the general Summoner population (who plays the job now)... in THIS game.

While I understand superficially linking different naming conventions to make it more Summoner Thematic, and perhaps a graffical upgrade...

... in no way can I possibly justify any kind of major mechanical rework of the job from the ground up, either Lore wise or Gameplay wise.

The class is powerful, viable, and fun to play.

[basketofseals]

I think people are bringing up FFXI because so many people are asking for a pet focused job. One where you send out the pet and it's the main source of damage, not the player character. For myself, with limited MMO experience, this would be FFXI pet jobs (BST, SMN, etc)

Weren't those jobs, also Puppeteer I think, absolute garbage bottom tier for years?

[Dyvid]

I think they just need to make a whole new job called "Beastmaster"... because that appears to be what some of you want...
You some of you don't want the classic Final Fantasy Summoner... you want a Beastmaster instead... or a Petmaster class.
Those are not Classic FF Summoner or Summons.
On top of that those will wreck the current Summoner job in a way that will torque off the general Summoner population (who plays the job now)... in THIS game.
While I understand superficially linking different naming conventions to make it more Summoner Thematic, and perhaps a graffical upgrade...
... in no way can I possibly justify any kind of major mechanical rework of the job from the ground up, either Lore wise or Gameplay wise.
The class is powerful, viable, and fun to play.

I'm glad you are enjoying Summoner, truly. But I have to ask if you have tried all the other jobs out there? FFXIV's Summoner is a pet job, or at least it was so that is why people want SE to focus on Egi. Also as a side note, if Garuda is the only viable pet out there then something is wrong with the job. We told Yoshi-P 4 years ago to change contagion to a Summoner ability because it's broken having it on an Egi.

Weren't those jobs, also Puppeteer I think, absolute garbage bottom tier for years?

The only real issue people had with FFXI's Summoner was the perpetuation cost which drained your mp when a pet was out fighting. They loved the Avatar design and how all the spells was based on which pet was out. BST and PUP was also a niche job where it had it's use like soloing and stuff.

[Shougun]

I think they just need to make a whole new job called "Beastmaster"... because that appears to be what some of you want...

You some of you don't want the classic Final Fantasy Summoner... you want a Beastmaster instead... or a Petmaster class.

Those are not Classic FF Summoner or Summons.

On top of that those will wreck the current Summoner job in a way that will torque off the general Summoner population (who plays the job now)... in THIS game.

While I understand superficially linking different naming conventions to make it more Summoner Thematic, and perhaps a graffical upgrade...

... in no way can I possibly justify any kind of major mechanical rework of the job from the ground up, either Lore wise or Gameplay wise.

The class is powerful, viable, and fun to play.

I think its generally underwhelming presentation has opened up the can of worms of design. While I'm not a seer I would gamble that if they had designed 90% plus on summoning skills that even if it wasn't "pet" focused that people would largely be too disjointed to have a thread such as this (mostly happy/silent/significantly smaller protests). Well and ensuring that all the epic skills are not just Bahamut, perhaps Odin too - the epic skills could be elder primal stuff :P.

I agree massive mechanic changes would be bad for those who already enjoy the class, but changes sooner better than later - especially at level jumps.. would be nice lol.

I would suggest they should try to aim for a new pet mechanic and 6 pets total (I can imagine 6 archetypes that would be useful in niche situations, Duelle has already made a nice list too). Get those core elements that /everyone/ is familiar with (the big name summons, at least give summoners access to them), and then never add another base pet again but add glamours and new epic skills/pet/temporary skills (like temporary summon a new egi/big summons pell on a cooldown spell). Ifrit, Titan, Shiva, Garuda, Levithan, Ramuh - the primal elements. It could be lored in why the player can use them to such effectiveness too, since they make a logical grouping (the primal elements). The current loadout screams "we messed up and have no idea where to go from here" lol, Titan, Ifrit, Garuda. . . and where are the rest? I think at least the entire primal element group would make sense to be closed on, they're even special in their own group in lore iirc (known for their representation of the element, the pure representation). I think this makes them good place to bookmark/halt egis rather than half way, which I think feels really cliff hanger/abrupt.

The new pet mechanic is just to encourage shifting and greater variety use, I've seen a lot of good ones suggest here already. The base idea would be though to just keep it moving along, so I think two simple ideas would either be a spell that gives you temporary summon of another egi primal (so you personally picked the best for the situation, and now can also have second best shortly - increasing likely chance of variety use) or that you can fast cast summon another primal with a buff and it replaces your current where keeping the buff up means you'd want to cycle nearly no matter (but you could probably make it more mechanically interesting without really killing the structure of the current Summoner).

Then make all of the Arcanist spells themed after the primal elements - a big popular suggestion I've seen, keeping it simple for bio and such - so its not too much work for them (light fire effect on the periodic damage). Burn, Rasp, Drown, Shock, we are already familiar with dot elemental versions - just changing the fact that its not primal related to now primal related. Fester/Bane however would be a great opportunity to be related to the primals and their skills, like Fester an enemy with Ifrit egi causes a partially formed Ifrit arm to impale (upper cut, with claws) the target and bane could be an Ifirt Eruption attack. Plumes, Sands, we have all the art ready (almost). Small mechanically differences I think would be fun, but probably lead to balance challenge/issues if they meant anything (like Bane w/ Ifrit = Eruption, including the part where eruptions continue to be cast for a short time).. So even though neat I might avoid that for sanity lol.

The trance, imo, should change just because it seems pretty strict.. but it doesn't have to disappear. Again a lot of suggestions that don't flip it upside down. I would like to see more freedom, but maybe people like the timer. A relatively in the lines of what is already there change might be to make it so you build up into the trance but once in the trance you get expendable stacks that don't so tightly tunnel you, could be that these stacks can be used else where too. With Bahamut could also be Odin or other Elder Primals, so the trance is more elder primal trance. I do agree with Duelle that it seems like they're making the Dragon Priest or something, should be careful with how specific all the end cool stuff is - elder trance ifrit for a Belias buff or something would be a nice mix.

Somewhere there also add a tier 2 Egi with slight visual adjustments to add more of their image into the summon (whatever that theme is), could be through elder stacks like the Belias buff, or a new spell, or just a change to the current enrage spells (like spur). WoW/Aion come to mind with examples of this tier 2 stuff, Warlock has upgraded forms later and also the size actually changes based on your level now (so all summons start out small but the Voidwalker, Infernal, Doomguard, and similar "big" demons are like 3x-4x the character's size near the end - infernal is a temporary summon though).

I would like to see more changes of course but I think these might not turn summoner inside-out but still feel substantial (of course these changes are big, but no where near a complete redesign, people who play summoner well now would still play them well afterwards). Just attempting to add the core primals that everyone knows, nearly 24/7 influenced attacks (less unaspected not related to primal stuff), more cycling of your pets in combat, and less dragon priest/more free elder trance.

[Silverquick]

I agree massive mechanic changes would be bad for those who already enjoy the class, but changes sooner better than later - especially at level jumps.. would be nice lol.

My friend, seriously...

You can't throw a stone without hitting a SMN at high levels. This class is quite literally THAT popular and fun to play...

I hop into a Diadem party, its almost all SMN.

The Void Ark Series of raids? Again my last party was 3 SMN, 2 BLM, 1 BRD.

My last Alex Run? 2 SMN, 1 BLM, 1 DRG.

You guys are in the minority with this idea the Job needs some kind of overhaul.

Who you think would be whining if they did some kind of massive overhaul... the 20-30 wanting a "Pet Class" here?

Or the thousands that are spamming the upper tier content in enormous numbers currently playing the job as is and loving it?