Dam. meter

[Greedalox]

Alright.
We already have a 3rd party that can be used by people that really care about it adding a built-in one would be redundant and a waste of resources since it's only really relevant to mid to hardcore content.
It is already possible to detect people that aren't performing that well without parsers in casual end-game content, usually it won't really matter that much if there is a person slacking off on DPS depending on what you're doing. Not to the point that it'll cause you to not complete said content with ease.
People can also use said 3rd party parser to improve their own DPS if they wish to do so. Even though the natural evolution is a lot more fun and rewarding.
The community itself is split between yes and no thus implementing said feature would upset a portion of the community whilst not implementing it can be less harmful since there is already a 3rd party one available. With all due respect, your point isn't valid.

Many people aren't comfortable using third party software. That could be a huge alleviation in itself. It being more used in midcore/hardcore content doesn't mean that it wouldn't have use in softcore content because unless you're already 100% efficient (Good luck) with your class, there's room to improve- unless you're one of those people that believe a 90 minute dungeon run is just as good as a 20 minute one because it got done.

It's also not the point to "detect people not performing well", it's about having the tools to help yourself up and actually perform well. You wouldn't have to detect others doing poorly and inform them because they would already have their own numbers on their screen.

"Natural evolution and course of learning is more fun anyways"... for you personally.

The community is split between yes and no which is why I'm inquiring in the first place, and so far the main concern is harassment which my previous post I've tried to illustrate that everything can and is abused, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in the game.

[Llan]

-snip-

Everything you're saying right now is basically: "I feel it's like this therefore it's a fact".
The facts are, you do not need anything to have fun and complete casual content.

People are already using parsers in end-game hardcore content. There is no problem to be solved.
So adding a parser will solve which problems, but do not consider your major argument so that it can be easier for me to refute, sounds familiar?

And isn't your opinion also "for you personally"? I mean for reals, if we are suppose to not consider semantics here, then this whole discussion is irrelevant and the logical thing is to not implement something that already exists, even though it is not built-in it still solves the very problem people are bringing up.

[Greedalox]

And isn't your opinion also "for you personally"? I mean for reals,

That's why I'm inquiring

I can see that you don't believe having an astonishing low bottom line player base as a communal issue, so I can see how you wouldn't see eye to eye with my points. If you don't see that as a problem, that's where our dissonance is! I believe this community can be better if given the tools to do so, and I also don't believe it's problematic, elitist or anti-casual- but I do understand how you may see people wanting numbers on screen as opposing to your views.

So what I've gathered from your posts is that you're worried it will pull away from resources and that it's not necessary for casual content.

Would you mind an official parser being added to Midcore and Hardcore content? Or was that just a half point for yourself?

Edit: Side note! You say the community is split on yes/no, how would you feel about a checkbox in the settings for if you want to display an official parser or not (Depending on Mid/Hard or +Soft depending on how you answer my above question).

[StarRosie]

I can see that you don't believe having an astonishing low bottom line player base as a communal issue, so I can see how you wouldn't see eye to eye with my points. If you don't see that as a problem, that's where our dissonance is! I believe this community can be better if given the tools to do so

The problem with that line of thinking, is it's rather absolutist. "If you put the tool in officially, EVERYONE will use it and want to better themselves!" This is kinda what I've been getting from the pro parser side in some of the recent posts. It's just a little to...aaahhh I don't know how to put it, but it isn't quite right. There will always be bad players and there will always be players who think they are fine where they are. No amount of tools and parsers is gonna change that. Surely you gotta understand that. So what do we do about them? Kick and boot underperforming players from runs till they quit the game? Then we lose players and subs which means a loss of money and funds for the game.

Those who want to improve themselves will seek out the tools to do so. I don't think adding an official parser is gonna magically flip a switch in bad player's heads to go "Thank god they added an official parser, without one, I had no desire to improve myself. But now that they have added one, I do!" so it makes me wonder if this hard push for an official parser is more for validation and acknowledgement of the players who do use them. So, I do have to ask, if we did add a parser and it didn't raise the overall player skill level, then what? The question goes both ways. I don't know, I think I'm rambling at this point. Sorry.

[Greedalox]

The problem with that line of thinking, is it's rather absolutist. "If you put the tool in officially, EVERYONE will use it and want to better themselves!"

I'm sorry if I put it across like that! But even if EVERYONE has a parser, of course not everyone will improve. But maybe SOME people will improve and that's great for the community as a whole! But at the same point, if everyone had a parser, I doubt many people would get worse so it's really at no loss and potentially all gain.

As for abuse and kicking, I made a post on the previous page of this thread explaining how I don't believe that harassment and abuse of tools in an MMO stands for grounds of opposition to it's implementation. We wouldn't have much more than a skeleton of a game if fear of harassment stood in the way of new things.

[StarRosie]

-snip-

But again, those people who want to improve will seek the tools themselves. So what happens to those who don't? I'm not talking harassment, abuse maybe but the question is ultimately, what do we do about the players who don't want to improve? Do we just boot and exclude them till they quit? I understand the benefits of adding an official parser, I get them 100% but I think we're only looking at the benefits and not really the side effects that could come from it. Trying to remove the discussion about how the parser could be abused, removes a serious portion of discussion. When the abuse starts hurting the game itself.

(PREFACE: Keep in mind, I am not talking about all pro parser users, more the extremes who do boot and exclude people based on parsers.)

If you introduce an official parser, it normalizes the behaviors that come with it. So those who boot based on parsers would most likely be way more open about it and the fact we have GMs essentially saying it's ok to vote kick people based on differing playstyles, means there are no repercussions for people who would abuse the parser to exclude other players. While yes, I think the benefits from adding an official parser are good, I think this would be one of those additions that the top tiers benefit the most from, mid tier players would benefit some from, and low tier players would be hurt by it, possibly leading to players quitting cause they can't get into content.

[Greedalox]

If you introduce an official parser, it normalizes the behaviors that come with it.

I believe that most of the Pro vs Against ideas can be boiled down to this statement, which I disagree with. We know that /say /shout /tell, friends list, vote kick, emotes, Back in the day we had Spirit Bonders in parties and 24 man and things of that sort- are all used for abusive means, but none of us just sit back and normalize being spammed 100+ times. We get mad, cranky and even report when people use these functions for their worst. But at the same time do you think the game would be for the better without them?

Having some dicks at an event doesn't normalize being a dick, but getting rid of the event in the first place means nobody gets to partake.

[Llan]

-snip-

Well, you obviously haven't read my other posts in this thread.
I'll sum my view on this matter up.
There is a gap between top-tier DPSs and the majority of the community, yes. A parser will not solve that, I strongly believe that it will cause more harm than good overall. A small percentage of players might start improving over their numbers because they have that information, but as mentioned people that don't care, will still not care about their DPS being optimal. I think diverting resources into a built-in parser implementation for a small percentage of the player-base to use is a waste.

From a game's development stand point you can only justify that time if it would guarantee benefits to the majority of the player base without generating a backlash or increase in customer service work because of it.