Dam. meter

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

@ThirdChild. Ok we have 1 person so far. The things i listed are very possible w/o a parser of course. So good on you.
The point of all my questions was to filter out good players from bad. To me it seems most of the players in here are afraid of parsers because they don't want to get booted from dungeons. Anyone who is good at their job shouldn't be concerned.
So. Question for you. Why do you not want in game parsers?

Thing is, I'm actually not against parsers. But I'm not trying to ignore the human nature that'd be in full effect with them. Please refer to my earlier comment about a PvP situation. It may be different from PvE and scripted encounters, but the main point is someone tried to contend that a person who did slightly more damage than I did in a long match but scored no kills (versus my slightly less damage and 10 kills, the most of my team) performed better. Were you going to look at the damage alone, sure you could say that person did "better". What that damage actually amounted to is what really tells the real tale there. And let's not act like it's not easy to pad and fluff numbers. Let's also not act like people won't simply take things at face value "because the parser says".

Simply put: the parser might say Player A deals more damage than Player B, but Player B performed mechanics with better technical expertise, perhaps at times sacrificing damage to ensure a critical mechanic - like T8's Allagan Field on a melee - didn't complicate or wipe the party. If it's all numbers, sure take Player A and enjoy dealing with that, especially if you're a healer. Player B isn't a lesser player nor worth being overlooked or excluded (like people would do, let's not kid ourselves) simply because of numbers.

Parsers aren't the problem, the human element is, and SE knows exactly who they're dealing with. Give a man the opportunity to do wrong, and you'd be amazed how many actually do. Give an arsonist matches and watch the world burn.

[Arrius]

You don't need bix XP penalties or lots gear or whatever to punish you in order to feel bad and want to do better, you just need a sense of pride in how you play and contribute to the team.

I edited a bit above, so just as an info.

Of course, people will try to 'get gud' on their own behalf, but back then the consequences were severe enough for even less skillfull players to get motivated to think about their classes and how they can get better.

[Kosmos992k]

No, you are wrong and emotional.

Data is needed (and a place to compare it too) without it is all about "feelings" and no facts. Also, at any point I say you only needed numbers, thats on you.

Turn off your targeting computer and use the force.

[Driavna]

Why I do not want OFFICIAL prasers is because how the community acts now with the unofficial ones. The ones that offer advice do so with out them, while people with them, just harass people. THAT IS WHY! the community already proved they cannot handle it.

Again more emotional stuff, anything in the game be use to harass people, period. Using your logic chat and names should be turned off while using duty finder, because people can use it to harras you for fail a mechanic.

[Kosmos992k]

Again more emotional stuff, anything in the game be use to harass people, period. Using your logic chat and names should be turned off while using duty finder, because people can use it to harras you for fail a mechanic.

Humans are emotional creatures, to deny that is illogical.

[Ama_Hamada]

Again more emotional stuff, anything in the game be use to harass people, period. Using your logic chat and names should be turned off while using duty finder, because people can use it to harras you for fail a mechanic.

You are not understanding how people act. Some are simply not going to care what that number says. I posted earlier how I remarked to someone pulling low DPS and he said no one told him before it is just a game and did not care. So what is going to happen, if prasers where official will only provoke more fights between people that "do not care" / casual and the "elite". Prasers may also provoke those that are somewhat good and can "top" most random people in DF to start kicking people just because of numbers.

has nothing to do with feelings, its just a simple case it brings more harm then good to the community.

Parsers aren't the problem, the human element is, and SE knows exactly who they're dealing with. Give a man the opportunity to do wrong, and you'd be amazed how many actually do. Give an arsonist matches and watch the world burn.

[Driavna]

Oh I understand how people act and again is all about "if". Yeah, there are dicks out there, so what? Block, report and move along with your life. As I said, with your logic anything that can be used in a wrong way should be remove.

They removed the chat from "arenas" and people spam a certain emote to point out mistakes from other players, dicks keep harassaing but everyone suffer without a proper way to communicate.

[Greedalox]

I agree with the premise that anything can be abused to abuse and harass, which is exactly why I don't think that harassment is a key point against the implementation of anything in an MMO. The situation and question at hand should be the weighing of (Or lack of) merits by a proposed idea. What is there to gain and what is there to lose with the introduction of a parser if we take "harassment" and it's boundless POTENTIAL influence on all facets of the game. I'd say there's much more to gain than there is to lose.

If harassment was the say all, be all final verdict on the implementation of functions in this game, we wouldn't have emotes, /tells, vote kick, friend invites. These are just a few things that get abused to harass others, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the game.

So for the people who are wholeheartedly against official parsers, if you remove harassment from your own equation, what are the downsides that outweigh the potential increase in players effectiveness?

[Llan]

-snip-

Alright.
We already have a 3rd party that can be used by people that really care about it adding a built-in one would be redundant and a waste of resources since it's only really relevant to mid to hardcore content.
It is already possible to detect people that aren't performing that well without parsers in casual end-game content, usually it won't really matter that much if there is a person slacking off on DPS depending on what you're doing. Not to the point that it'll cause you to not complete said content with ease.
People can also use said 3rd party parser to improve their own DPS if they wish to do so. Even though the natural evolution is a lot more fun and rewarding.
The community itself is split between yes and no thus implementing said feature would upset a portion of the community whilst not implementing it can be less harmful since there is already a 3rd party one available. With all due respect, your point isn't valid.

[Greedalox]

Alright.
We already have a 3rd party that can be used by people that really care about it adding a built-in one would be redundant and a waste of resources since it's only really relevant to mid to hardcore content.
It is already possible to detect people that aren't performing that well without parsers in casual end-game content, usually it won't really matter that much if there is a person slacking off on DPS depending on what you're doing. Not to the point that it'll cause you to not complete said content with ease.
People can also use said 3rd party parser to improve their own DPS if they wish to do so. Even though the natural evolution is a lot more fun and rewarding.
The community itself is split between yes and no thus implementing said feature would upset a portion of the community whilst not implementing it can be less harmful since there is already a 3rd party one available. With all due respect, your point isn't valid.

Many people aren't comfortable using third party software. That could be a huge alleviation in itself. It being more used in midcore/hardcore content doesn't mean that it wouldn't have use in softcore content because unless you're already 100% efficient (Good luck) with your class, there's room to improve- unless you're one of those people that believe a 90 minute dungeon run is just as good as a 20 minute one because it got done.

It's also not the point to "detect people not performing well", it's about having the tools to help yourself up and actually perform well. You wouldn't have to detect others doing poorly and inform them because they would already have their own numbers on their screen.

"Natural evolution and course of learning is more fun anyways"... for you personally.

The community is split between yes and no which is why I'm inquiring in the first place, and so far the main concern is harassment which my previous post I've tried to illustrate that everything can and is abused, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in the game.