SE Please add jump and swiming

[Shipp]

Oh the sweet, sweet irony.

I'm going to remember this post, Shipp.

Please do, since I know exactly which post of mine you're referring to and if you'd actually think about it, you'd realize there's nothing ironic about it at all.

[Preypacer]

Please do, since I know exactly which post of mine you're referring to and if you'd actually think about it, you'd realize there's nothing ironic about it at all.

Oh I have thought about it and perhaps irony isn't a good enough word for it.

Hypocrisy is much more poignant.

Spin, deflect, dodge, redefine and argue that "it's different here" 'til you're blue in the face. It is what it is. You're a hypocrite.

In the other thread, I set up a possible scenario where a given piece of rare gear, or at least two pieces of gear with the same stats but different looks - could be obtained in two possible ways. One way would be to do a difficult instanced battle, such as a hyper Ifrit type fight. The other way could be for rare world NM/HNM spawns to have a chance of dropping it. This way, those who enjoy doing instanced battles could have a shot at it, and people who enjoy hunting rare HNMs/NMs could have a shot at it. Neither piece would be superior or inferior to the other.

Such a setup would provide options to players. Not everyone enjoys doing instances. There are people who enjoy hunting and camping rare NMs (your "disbelief" of such a thing notwithstanding).

You, oh mighty Shipp on High, declared that no, those who might enjoy such an option should not be offered it, for no other reason than you don't like them. Your entire argument in that case is self-centered. It's all about you.

Oh you gave all sorts of reasons why you don't like them. But then, people in this thread have given all kinds of reasons - some quite valid and precedented - for feeling jumping isn't necessary or desirable in FFXIV. You've had an answer for them every time, haven't you? In fact, I could just copy and paste some of your myriad responses to people in this thread, and it would apply just as well to the HNM topic.

For example, here's another one of your own statements turned against you:

"Adding jump takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As applied to the other thread:
"Adding rare HNMs/NMs as an option to obtain certain gear takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As long as you have the option to not hunt/camp the rare HNMs/NMs and have an alternative means of obtaining the item in question via an Instanced fight, then what does it matter to you that the option is there? It's not being forced on you. It's an option. So why are you so against it? Oh right... because Shipp doesn't like the idea of camping HNMs and can't fathom the idea that others actually would. I mean that is what you said in the other thread, with that appeal to incredulity you used as an actual argument.

But of course, it's different in this case, isn't it, Shipp? Because you don't like the idea of HNMs/NMs, then it doesn't matter what others would enjoy, right? Because, it's all about you, isn't it.

Shipp, there's no other way to describe it: You are a hypocrite.

[irongripz]

Oh I have thought about it and perhaps irony isn't a good enough word for it.

Hypocrisy is much more poignant.

Spin, deflect, dodge, redefine and argue that "it's different here" 'til you're blue in the face. It is what it is. You're a hypocrite.

In the other thread, I set up a possible scenario where a given piece of rare gear, or at least two pieces of gear with the same stats but different looks - could be obtained in two possible ways. One way would be to do a difficult instanced battle, such as a hyper Ifrit type fight. The other way could be for rare world NM/HNM spawns to have a chance of dropping it. This way, those who enjoy doing instanced battles could have a shot at it, and people who enjoy hunting rare HNMs/NMs could have a shot at it. Neither piece would be superior or inferior to the other.

Such a setup would provide options to players. Not everyone enjoys doing instances. There are people who enjoy hunting and camping rare NMs (your "disbelief" of such a thing notwithstanding).

You, oh mighty Shipp on High, declared that no, those who might enjoy such an option should not be offered it, for no other reason than you don't like them. Your entire argument in that case is self-centered. It's all about you.

Oh you gave all sorts of reasons why you don't like them. But then, people in this thread have given all kinds of reasons - some quite valid and precedented - for feeling jumping isn't necessary or desirable in FFXIV. You've had an answer for them every time, haven't you? In fact, I could just copy and paste some of your myriad responses to people in this thread, and it would apply just as well to the HNM topic.

For example, here's another one of your own statements turned against you:

"Adding jump takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As applied to the other thread:
"Adding rare HNMs/NMs as an option to obtain certain gear takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As long as you have the option to not hunt/camp the rare HNMs/NMs and have an alternative means of obtaining the item in question via an Instanced fight, then what does it matter to you that the option is there? It's not being forced on you. It's an option. So why are you so against it? Oh right... because Shipp doesn't like the idea of camping HNMs and can't fathom the idea that others actually would. I mean that is what you said in the other thread, with that appeal to incredulity you used as an actual argument.

But of course, it's different in this case, isn't it, Shipp? Because you don't like the idea of HNMs/NMs, then it doesn't matter what others would enjoy, right? Because, it's all about you, isn't it.

Shipp, there's no other way to describe it: You are a hypocrite.

seriously does this need to be in this thread? derail the debate more it helps you guys win it.

[Preypacer]

seriously does this need to be in this thread? derail the debate more it helps you guys win it.

Not a matter of derailing anything. I've said my piece about jumping already.

My last post is a matter of calling out someone on these forums for their hypocrisy.

That said... You know, there's this amazing power that people have when it comes to things like reading a post or not reading a post. It's called choice. Check it out, it works like this. If you find that a post - or even an entire thread! - doesn't suit your interests or doesn't seem relevant to the topic at hand, you have the choice to not read it.

That you choose to read a post that you find of no interest to you, given the choice not to, is your problem, not mine. No one's forcing you to read it.

[Shipp]

Not a matter of derailing anything. I've said my piece about jumping already.

My last post is a matter of calling out someone on these forums for their hypocrisy.

That said... You know, there's this amazing power that people have when it comes to things like reading a post or not reading a post. It's called choice. Check it out, it works like this. If you find that a post - or even an entire thread! - doesn't suit your interests or doesn't seem relevant to the topic at hand, you have the choice to not read it.

That you choose to read a post that you find of no interest to you, given the choice not to, is your problem, not mine. No one's forcing you to read it.

You didn't call me out on hypocrisy, because there was none. You made up your own version of what I said in that other thread and instead of debating what I actually said, you debated what your mind turned my post into.

[Preypacer]

You didn't call me out on hypocrisy, because there was none. You made up your own version of what I said in that other thread and instead of debating what I actually said, you debated what your mind turned my post into.

Oh, hello again, hypocrite.

So, now I "made up my own version of what you said"?

I see you're still trying to spin and distort your story. No surprise there.

Excuse me... but did you, or did you not state that FFXIV should not have rare HNMs because of a list of issues you had personally with them in XI. Was or was not your response what it was even though I very clearly explained that you would not have to hunt/camp them because you'd have another option to obtain the same, or identical items via Instanced content?

You certainly weren't saying "Yeah, as long as they're optional and I can avoid doing them without missing out on anything, I guess that would be okay", or I wouldn't have responded as I did.

But, by all means.. please clarify exactly what your bottom-line opinion on them is. Let's see how consistent your argument now is with what you said before... Also, let's see how much of what I said you conveniently ignore, dismiss or twist around to do so.

If you can sufficiently explain your case, without contradicting what you've said previously, without cherry-picking, distorting or ignoring details of my suggestion, and without revising history in the process, then I'll concede your point. Short of that, you are and shall remain a hypocrite for the arguments you're making now that it involves something you would like... jumping to be specific.

[Shipp]

Oh, hello again, hypocrite.

So, now I "made up my own version of what you said"?

I see you're still trying to spin and distort your story. No surprise there.

Excuse me... but did you, or did you not state that FFXIV should not have rare HNMs because of a list of issues you had personally with them in XI?

You certainly weren't saying "Yeah, as long as they're optional and I can avoid doing them without missing out on anything, I guess that would be okay", or I wouldn't have responded as I did.

But, by all means.. please clarify exactly what your bottom-line opinion on them is. Let's see how consistent your argument now is with what you said before... Also, let's see how much of what I said you conveniently ignore, dismiss or twist around to do so.

Dude, quit derailing this thread. Everyone can go read that thread and see that you completely twisted what I said.

For the record for the 5th time or so now, no, I never stated XIV should not have rare HNMs because of a list of issues I had with them in XI. I said I don't want to see them implemented as they were in XI. I have kept clarifying this point for you numerous times now, and you're only looking like a pathetic derailer out to "prove someone wrong" instead of actually civilly debating.

[Zaireeka2025]

Oh, hello again, hypocrite.

Seriously Prey... quit attacking Shipp and bringing in walls of text with no relevance to the topic.

[Shipp]

Oh I have thought about it and perhaps irony isn't a good enough word for it.

Hypocrisy is much more poignant.

Spin, deflect, dodge, redefine and argue that "it's different here" 'til you're blue in the face. It is what it is. You're a hypocrite.

In the other thread, I set up a possible scenario where a given piece of rare gear, or at least two pieces of gear with the same stats but different looks - could be obtained in two possible ways. One way would be to do a difficult instanced battle, such as a hyper Ifrit type fight. The other way could be for rare world NM/HNM spawns to have a chance of dropping it. This way, those who enjoy doing instanced battles could have a shot at it, and people who enjoy hunting rare HNMs/NMs could have a shot at it. Neither piece would be superior or inferior to the other.

Such a setup would provide options to players. Not everyone enjoys doing instances. There are people who enjoy hunting and camping rare NMs (your "disbelief" of such a thing notwithstanding).

You, oh mighty Shipp on High, declared that no, those who might enjoy such an option should not be offered it, for no other reason than you don't like them. Your entire argument in that case is self-centered. It's all about you.

I didn't say that, and you're flat out lying. I said I don't want to see HNMs as they were in XI. NOBODY is going to camp them after the newness wears off if you have to sit around between the 21-24 hour mark like XI, if that gear can be easily obtainable in an instance. It's common sense, and if you need proof, go look at XI.

Oh you gave all sorts of reasons why you don't like them. But then, people in this thread have given all kinds of reasons - some quite valid and precedented - for feeling jumping isn't necessary or desirable in FFXIV. You've had an answer for them every time, haven't you? In fact, I could just copy and paste some of your myriad responses to people in this thread, and it would apply just as well to the HNM topic.

Actually, I didn't. I said I did enjoy the social aspect of camping HNMs in XI. I said there won't be social aspects when 90% of the playerbase is doing the instance and you're the only shell going out into the world and waiting 3 hours to fight the same mob with the same drops.

Go ahead and copy and paste my previous responses. I flat out told you in the other thread you assume too much. YOU are the one who made it up in your mind that I didn't find HNMs enjoyable at all. YOU are the one that has made up much, of what I never said, in your own head. Go back and read my posts after I clarified my stance on the matter. Especially the part where I said I don't mind HNMs as world spawns as long as they do not have ridiculous windows that encourage botting. THAT is an aspect of the game that encourages hacking. Jumping is not. So even if I was a hypocrite and said HNMs shouldn't be in the game whatsoever, no world spawns, whatsoever, I would still have a point, because there is a valid reason as to why they damage the game in a much bigger way than someone just not wanting to look at someone else hopping. But I never claimed that, those are the words you decided to put in my mouth.

For example, here's another one of your own statements turned against you:

"Adding jump takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

As applied to the other thread:
"Adding rare HNMs/NMs as an option to obtain certain gear takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though."

And I have no problem with that. I do not want HNMs that are required to camp because of better rewards, nor do I want HNMs that have 3hour long windows.

As long as you have the option to not hunt/camp the rare HNMs/NMs and have an alternative means of obtaining the item in question via an Instanced fight, then what does it matter to you that the option is there? It's not being forced on you. It's an option. So why are you so against it? Oh right... because Shipp doesn't like the idea of camping HNMs and can't fathom the idea that others actually would. I mean that is what you said in the other thread, with that appeal to incredulity you used as an actual argument.

I killed every monster in the game, besides AV, by the time ToAU came out. I camped kings regularly. Again, assumptions from you which are 100% wrong.

But of course, it's different in this case, isn't it, Shipp? Because you don't like the idea of HNMs/NMs, then it doesn't matter what others would enjoy, right? Because, it's all about you, isn't it.

No, it's not different in this case. You just simply assumed I meant something I didn't and went off on this whole personal tirade that should have never left your head. YOU are the one who assumed I said things for a certain reason. YOU are the one who said I don't like HNMs. YOU are the one who said I don't like camping HNMs, which I later clarified for you since you only want to jump to assumptions.

YOU need to take a damn chill pill and stop assuming so much about a post. It's better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. You just did the latter in that thread, and this one.

Shipp, there's no other way to describe it: You are a hypocrite.

Your misinformed assumptions != reality. Don't blame me because you read my posts completely different than what was actually written in them.