As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

Unfortunately, a large portion of the community grants healers a built in excuse whereas the same courtesy is rarely afforded tanks and especially not DPS. I liken it to tanks who stay in Shield/Defiance/Grit for the entirety of a fight. Even at the more casual level, this is generally frowned upon yet healers who barely touch Cleric get a pass.

I take the point, but I think thie whole issue is about , maybe too much expectation all round, possibly leading to resentment or comparisons of how much others have to do perhaps. Im not sure but it seems the message is everyone is expected to work their asses off that may be the consensus of this game but Im not sure if it allows for a more fun experience because most people say to me groups are much more fun if with friends where your not in fear of being kicked or shouted at etc

[Feyona]

What has this got to do with anything I just said?



So wait, let me get this straight? Are you implying that I'm not capable of intelligent conversation because I don't agree with you?



How is this any different to a DPS that's over stretching, being greedy and failing mechanics? Causing wipes as a healer isn't a community

Did you read the post? I said referring to the stupid animated post designed to mock but quite childishly. I aso said not meaning you as well, but in general. Referring to your last point dps being greedy, or failing nechanics does not have the same impact as tank dying from lack of heals. Everyone knows tank got to be healed. Healers always go to be ready to heal. Your examples are of an ideal group scenario. Name me a healer that hasnt ever faied with cleric got nothing to do with skill everyone messes up All situations are different. And no I dont ask for it but had it before so it sort of gets predictable

[Feyona]

The later would be your fault, since healers should always have enough mp to do their main job, which is of course still healing. But i disagree about the unexpected dmg or in other words, dmg the dd or tanks take, because they made an mistake. As a healer you should try to save them, no question about that, but ultimately they made the mistakes, so this is their fault.

I get what she means. If someone messes up your there to heal them. Thats what your there for. If the die your supposed to rez. It may be the team members fault for dying or taking damage but the healer is there to cover those mistakes. So it is the healers fault in a wy but even if it isnt then it may stll be blamed on healer

[Wanzer]

So wait, let me get this straight? Are you implying that I'm not capable of intelligent conversation because I don't agree with you?

Did you read the post? I said referring to the stupid animated post designed to mock but quite childishly.

Aaw, so I am stupid now. I mean, your previous post was quite obvious (but it was so hard to figure it out, you know, unbelievable), but eh... If you can't even take a gif when you are funny. /shrug
But... It's fine, don't worry. I mean, we talked a lot here, and I don't expect you to be able to remember everything, especially with your selective memory. Anyway, you should stop calling people stupid because they don't agree with you, especially when they wasted many hours to explain things for nothing, to see you at the exact same point at last.

but Im not sure if it allows for a more fun experience because most people say to me groups are much more fun if with friends where your not in fear of being kicked or shouted at etc

Eh ! Here, it's the perfect sentence about me and every posts that you made : "talking is much more fun if with friends, where you aren't in fear of being called stupid by Feyona". And... I'm probably not the only person with that feeling. But yeah, go on, teach me how having intelligent conversations, please!
I checked on the previous pages, the lesson never began.

By the way, that kind of behaviour, how come it is more acceptable than healers being kicked because they don't DPS?
I mean, you are a cause of stress and pressure here, at least for me (I won't talk for the others). What you are doing is exactly the same but in a different situation. You are advocating for people to be more friendly, or more empathic, but your first thought when someone doesn't agree is "must attack", "that guy/gal is stupid" or "you don't understand". At last, isn't it the same ? Or I missed something here ?

I'm not saying this to go back on the previous train ride, but... Try to be consistent.
Exactly like when you said :

Just waiting for abarrage of childish name calling next

^Do you see the irony ? Spitting on people, then proudly waiting their responses. Beautiful, my friend, beautiful... So many lessons to give, right?



Edit : before you say "Brrrr I didn't say you were stupid <_>", saying "trying to have intelligent conversations may be a complete waste of time and after seeing some of the silly animated posts and posters Im forced to agree" implies this idea.

[Feyona]

Aaw, so I am stupid now. I mean, your previous post was quite obvious (but it was so hard to figure it out, you know, unbelievable), but eh... If you can't even take a gif when you are funny. /shrug


Edit : before you say "Brrrr I didn't say you were stupid <_>", saying "trying to have intelligent conversations may be a complete waste of time and after seeing some of the silly animated posts and posters Im forced to agree" implies this idea.

No one said you are stupid. And refering to the rest of the post if the cap fits wear it if you like. It doesnt matter really to me if you insist on nonsense posts that have nothing to do with healer dps and just shows you how much more you have a personal issue with me. It isnt my problem wanzer I dont care just be aware that if you take a mocking pop at someone you may not get a nice response, and get your 'back up' if you want from here it not going to stop me posting here.

[Sebazy]

Referring to your last point dps being greedy, or failing nechanics does not have the same impact as tank dying from lack of heals.

Er, in savage it generally does have the same impact. Lets not forget that not only is this tier quite forgiving compared to Gordias/Midas, but we also have echo and gear as well. But case in point, whenever I'm helping kill groups on A12S, if a few DPS die in the earlier phases, most of these groups will simply wipe and restart rather than struggle on and have to deal with 2 or 3 sets of fountains in the final phase.

Your examples are of an ideal group scenario. Name me a healer that hasnt ever faied with cleric got nothing to do with skill everyone messes up All situations are different. And no I dont ask for it but had it before so it sort of gets predictable

Uh no they aren't, I hugely enjoy the challenge of pugs, of the 40+ A12S kills I've upload since echo got introduced, 8 of them have been with my static. The rest are all pugs, but by all means have a look yourself.

And as for someone that's never failed at cleric, please lets not get stupid now. *EVERYONE*s done it. The difference here is the frequency of mess ups, how well they can recover and how far that players comfort zone extends before they get overstretched and start to lose consistency. Top progression healers can can comfortably do a 4 hour raid sitting like clockwork and barely drop a single GCD in the process. Once tank busters are understood and tanks have a cooldown rotation that works, it's generally the DPS that cause wipes during early savage progression. This isn't because they need to get good, but rather because they generally have to push further out of their comfort zone than anyone else.

This isn't a specific special snowflake healer issue. The exact same thing applies to DPS as well. Get greedy, get flustered and you're going to mess up and potentially cause a wipe regardless of what job you are. A12S demonstrates this beautifully even with echo.

[Lambdafish]

No I had no intention of attacking you at all, in fact the opposite where people are saying that there was no evidence of non dps healers being kicked.

No one said you are stupid. (except you did)

I hate to say this, but this is the exact reason that people are so hostile to you Feyona, you attack people when things don't go your way and act like all of your answers are fact when very few people share your mentality (more on that in a moment). Just compare the amount of likes that your posts get to how many everyone elses get, thats not ganging up, its the amount of people who agree with peoples posts. Like I said, if you gave solid evidence I would be on your side, because there are some elements of truth in what you say, but your mentality handles that information in the completely wrong way.

In my experience some do need both healers to heal often if tank is in dps stance. Or people fail mechics alot. I did not have any bad intentions in it, was just statement that it happens. I think where Im coming from is I feel people may be uncomfortable with going in cleric, full stop, especially in new content.

This does happen, there is truth to that. BUT, what you don't take into account is the type of person they are, they type of group they are in, and the type of content that they are running. If someone is uncomfortable with cleric, they should be in clear parties, even if they have cleared, they have not cleared the fight to the point where they are comfortable with farm, it is the same for DPS who die a lot and clear with enrage, they are not suitable for farm either. It is FINE to uncomfortable, and DPS less because of it, but we shouldn't be promoting the idea that healer DPS is evil and something that hurts the game, we should be giving healer learners the opportunity to grow and learn when the gaps in their healing are. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said about clarity, it would be nice to add an addition step to the content running process called "practice", which is about optimising fights that people have cleared, and being ok with wipes and discussion.


Edit: Additional response that is a bit outdated now

really lambadafish I provide at least some evidence it exists and the wild accusations about me are coming from you. I ve said before that you need a reality check. You dont like my point of view thats all this is is so you try to say it doesnt exist. It doesnt work because Im a main healer and and I ve xperienced it so I know it does. Denying it doesnt force it to not be there.

The "evidence" that you provided was also selective and wrong, which you yourself apologised for misreading, I genuinely wanted to see the evidence that the community as a whole is toxic towards healers, thats why I asked for it, it just so happens that you yourself invalidated your "evidence". I haven't really been denying what you have been saying, I actually said (you can find the quote) that I would concede defeat and agree with you if you found me the evidence, so I'm not sure why I need a reality check.

[Feyona]

Don't worry, she referenced you as her sole evidence of this behavior, and I didn't take it as valid, quite the opposite, I took it as evidence that Feyona reads what she wants from a situation and misconstrues it to further her agenda. She has no leg to stand on unless she magically provides a tonne of evidence to support her wild accusations and claims.

really lambadafish I provide at least some evidence it exists and the wild accusations about me are coming from you. I ve said before that you need a reality check. You dont like my point of view thats all this is is so you try to say it doesnt exist. It doesnt work because Im a main healer and and I ve xperienced it so I know it does. Denying it doesnt force it to not be there.

[Wanzer]

and just shows you how much more you have a personal issue with me.

Here we go again... If you say something wrong and someone is telling it to you it's only because there is a personal issue involved, obviously. You wish. And that kind of lame answer just confirmed what I just said : I can't speak with you, because you keep coming with that kind of statement from nowhere. Because you aren't able to see how you are. I'm not someone against you, i'm someone who just tells you how bad your behaviour is. Could have been anyone else. But here : PRESSURE from that perfect little Feyona ! Yay. Intelligent conversations are so good !

just be aware that if you take a mocking pop at someone you may not get a nice response

And... Wait a minute. Are you saying is acceptable to insult someone because that person laughed ? Wow, such a nice person.
But, you can freely insulting people with no consequences because you didn't use a dumb gif. If only I knew, dammit!

[bounddreamer]

Dps mistakes can wipe the group in a lot of current content. Dun Scaith: dps fail to perform mechanics at the very first boss. If you have enough new people, or just enough who aren't paying attention to mechanics, yes, the group wipes at Deathgaze. Scathach: host of mechanics that, if ignored in the later phases, wipe the group and a healer lb3 is needed. Sometimes it's a wipe anyhow. Diabolos Hollow, again a gauntlet of mechanics that will wipe an alliance. Zurvan EX, greedy dps take hits and die, not enough people for tethers, no amount of healing will save that.

My group was farming savage last night and our dps were dying to mechanics one after the other (we're just farming for fun and a couple of us job swapped and some of us are in lazy mode) and some of those chain reaction deaths led to a wipe. Dps stands too close to healers during spread out mechanic, bye bye healers, that's a wipe.

I can't count the number of Sophia EX groups I left where the dps were getting so many vuln stacks and expecting us to keep them alive anyhow, or just plain falls off the platform repeatedly.

Dps in savage and extreme farm content have the added responsibility of performing mechanics in such a way that unnecessary healing isn't required.