Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[bswpayton]

Many threads have complained about rf this is the first one I've ever seen complaining about duty finder. So like I said the roles have shifted for those whom simply want to just have access the have more access now and farmers aren\\'t as in control just for two mere months I don\\'t see how that\\'s a problem. The trend will end as soon as storm blood hits the same people who are complaining here will be the same ones advocating for new players to just simply run the content unsync and move on to the hw Primals. Thats all I heard from these forums was to get over it the content is old move on to this new stuff. So I will repeat whats been said to me the content is old and irrelevant so why get upset about it new stuffs on the way

[Dualgunner]

Many threads have complained about rf this is the first one I've ever seen complaining about duty finder.

Opposite for me.

So like I said the roles have shifted for those whom simply want to just have access the have more access now and farmers aren\\'t as in control just for two mere months I don\\'t see how that\\'s a problem.

"In control"? This isn't us vs them this is the removal of a feature that helps separate players with different goals. You say vanilla df is more likely to pop? Vets who want to farm still aren't going to queue into DF, so vanilla DF will be just as dead as you claim RF Uncleared to be, for the exact same reasons. It helps no one and only hurts solo players who want to farm things.

The trend will end as soon as storm blood hits the same people who are complaining here will be the same ones advocating for new players to just simply run the content unsync and move on to the hw Primals.

That's a nice generalization.

Thats all I heard from these forums was to get over it the content is old move on to this new stuff. So I will repeat whats been said to me the content is old and irrelevant so why get upset about it new stuffs on the way

"I'm telling you to get over it because the content is old and there's new stuff around the corner because that's what I was told." Is the same logic of "I was bullied so that's why I'm shoving your head in a toilet and flushing." Child logic. Also I hate that "new content is around the corner" argument: it's not here -yet-. It might be a better argument if the release date was next week, but it isn't. There's still what, two months? That's a long time to start throwing up your hands and saying "LOL there'll be new stuff here eventually so who gives a crap! DD"

[bswpayton]

Opposite for me.


"In control"? This isn't us vs them this is the removal of a feature that helps separate players with different goals. You say vanilla df is more likely to pop? Vets

Despite the logic the people who control the pf and the rf are just not getting their way at the moment for two months and thats all. There was no patch note that came out saying that from here on out that primals will be in duty finder from here on out we all know that isnt the case. If people that haven't cleared things now and dont do it in the next few months then the chances of gettin a sync clear of these same runs are pretty slim. I personally had to go out of my way to use that pesky duty finder to clear all of the arr primals sync.

Other people will not be as willing to do the same thing and now is their only chance. Bird farmers on the other hand have a 100 percent chance to get every single bird because of the totem system thats even better than the rng ponies. So you tell me why should we feel sorry for those complaining on here your chance to get your birds increase 100 percent. While if things stayed the way they where the chance of someone wanted a sync clear would be far less. You guys arent losing anything other than the ability to cut people out of content thats been out for months Im sorry if thats so horrible to you but I just cant be concerned about it nor should others. No one here that hasnt cleared a certain piece of content is seeing their goals represented in the party finder nor rf while the bird farmers are weapon farmers have had what they wanted overwhelming represented in the pf and rf. So its just a matter of timing the time is up and just like someone who hasnt cleared something has to get over that 90 percent of the parties on pf dont want them and that nobody is gona que up for a rf practice session you guys gota bite the bullet to.

After all that is fairness right are do you just want your own interest represented only the whole time in the game. Like I said where is the post on raiders asking them to stop nerfing savage so people cant clear it , their arent any because nobody cares at this point. So I dont see why anyone cares about this temporary duty finder shift for content thats been out for months. I assure you that I qued up for nidhogg extreme the other day just to see if I could tell the difference from raid finder and I could. Whereas rf produces not even one extra person to even join duty finder will fill up just like it does for arr primals. ITs just like I said the roles have reversed you cant control the way the game plays to your advantage all the time sometimes others have to get their shot to.

[Dualgunner]

Despite the logic the people who control the pf and the rf are just not getting their way at the moment for two months and thats all.

Did you read past that point in the quote? Or did you stop there and decide to springboard off that to rant? Cuz fair enough if you did, but you missed the point of my post at the same time*. Taking the duties out of RF helps nobody, and as I've repeated before, experienced people aren't just gonna start queueing df because "Oh well no RF". Anyone queueing into DF expects the exact same they did when they queued into Uncleared RF.

This isn't about "control" it's not "us versus them". The thread was made asking to put the mentioned HW duties back in because they are still difficult to try and pug, infinitely moreso when the knowledge of your party members is also in question.

If people that haven't cleared things now and dont do it in the next few months then the chances of gettin a sync clear of these same runs are pretty slim. I personally had to go out of my way to use that pesky duty finder to clear all of the arr primals sync.

I'm glad you got your clears! Now go get your ponies with only DF.

Other people will not be as willing to do the same thing and now is their only chance. Bird farmers on the other hand have a 100 percent chance to get every single bird because of the totem system thats even better than the rng ponies.

So you tell me why should we feel sorry for those complaining on here your chance to get your birds increase 100 percent.

Uhm...what?

While if things stayed the way they where the chance of someone wanted a sync clear would be far less. You guys arent losing anything other than the ability to cut people out of content thats been out for months Im sorry if thats so horrible to you but I just cant be concerned about it nor should others.

No, the only people losing things are solo players. People who haven't cleared still have just as low a chance of clearing through DF, probably even lower than with uncleared RF. I'm sorry you're not too terribly concerned about a feature that affects nobody but the solo player but I guess that's the fate of the solo player--to be overlooked in favor of the flood of new players.

No one here that hasnt cleared a certain piece of content is seeing their goals represented in the party finder nor rf while the bird farmers are weapon farmers have had what they wanted overwhelming represented in the pf and rf.

So it's an argument from envy? The glorious Have-Cleared Master Race MUST come down from their Ivory Towers to bless us with their untold powers of Git Gud! I'm sorry but no, it doesn't work like that.

So its just a matter of timing the time is up and just like someone who hasnt cleared something has to get over that 90 percent of the parties on pf dont want them and that nobody is gona que up for a rf practice session you guys gota bite the bullet to.

I recall a screenshot earlier where ten highlighted parties were all learning/clear parties. It's also easy enough to make your own learning party, PF isn't gonna smack you across the face and say "NO go use the RF unclear you filthy peasant" nor does it say "NO go use the DF you filthy peasant!"

And what the shit is this 'bite the bullet too' crap? People who cleared *DID* bite the bullet when they learned these fights themselves. They--nor anyone else--needs to beg and plead with other people who have cleared to come carry them through.

After all that is fairness right are do you just want your own interest represented only the whole time in the game. Like I said where is the post on raiders asking them to stop nerfing savage so people cant clear it , their arent any because nobody cares at this point. So I dont see why anyone cares about this temporary duty finder shift for content thats been out for months.

After all that is fairness right...right.

DF is no better than RF uncleared, with the logic I've posted before backing me up. People aren't going to suddenly go "Oh okay, no clear filter might as well just roll the dice!" They're going to abandon the df altogether in favor of farm and clear parties, and the only uncleared that benefits are people who hop on trying to go unnoticed and ruining other people's time.

Removing these duties from the RF has benefited no one. And obviously some people do care or we wouldn't have a 19 page discussion about it right now.

EDIT: To add on page 1 as of this post is a request to nerf POTD Floor 50 boss. The overwhelming response to it is "No don't." Despite the content being what, 2 major patches old at this point they don't want that nerfed. But that's "old content" now, so why should they care?

I assure you that I qued up for nidhogg extreme the other day just to see if I could tell the difference from raid finder and I could.

Sweet! Got recorded times and numbers? As well as several trials to make sure it wasn't a fluke?

Whereas rf produces not even one extra person to even join duty finder will fill up just like it does for arr primals. ITs just like I said the roles have reversed you cant control the way the game plays to your advantage all the time sometimes others have to get their shot to.

A) If RF unclear isn't popping, your best shot is PF. "That's what you *hiss* RAIDERS should do too!" We do. That's where we get memes like "Skip soar or disband" from.
B ) I'm sorry but I don't quite believe your anecdote from before nor do I believe that your anecdote counts. Difference is vague. How much better was the queue? Was it an instant pop? Did all seven other players know/not know the fight and did you clear it?

*It's like you just broke down and threw a temper tantrum at me. "I'm angry because you cleared things and want an option for solo queueing, well guess what 100% haven't cleared this primal so you should suffer until you make sure each and every last person--YES EVEN THE GILBOT sdfhcbkehbdckj Mckjehbvkwjev clears this primal so then you can know everyone can do it!"

[Vidu]

Snip

What is this nonsense again?
I'm sorry, but I start getting really annoyed and angry with you because I feel I have explained this to often already - but lets go again, shall we?
I'll try to keep it simple:
- We have people who want to farm and those who simply want to clear.
- People who want to farm were able to use RF before to do that - now they cant anymore.
- They were queueing with RF because they were able to achieve their goal - to farm - using that option.
- Current DF does not represent their desired option, so they wont queue at all.
- Newbies arent benefitting from them either way - and if they are benefitting from someone who would have prefered to queue with "cleared"-only, that person right now is doing something they did not want to do. In their freetime. In a video game. That they're playing to have fun. This is messed up - that the game would forced them into groups they dont want to be in. How can you be okay with this at all?

The way you're wording this it also sounds a lot like "The only chance for newbies to clear this content now is to have random experienced people help/carry them in DF" - Isaid this before: This is insulting for everyone. Its insulting for the new player, you're so worried about because its patronising them - "Oh, but they cant clear this if you vets arent willing to help them!" - bullshit. We had to learn this fights on our own and we managed. And you know what? If someone isnt able to clear this on their own without a "hardcore-elitist-raider" holding their hand, they shouldnt get the clear. Period. How do you think we got those clears?
If you want something that the majority isnt intrested in right now, you have to put a little more effort into that - if more people are intrested in farming that content than in learning/teaching it, thats to bad for those who are the miniority. But again: this is a game, it shouldnt artificial make people help others by removing their option to decide against that.

Should everyone who is bird farming right now quit the game btw and come back with SB? Because its only two more months? They wouldnt help new people get their kills that way either, but at least their not elitist jerks that way because they put their own intrests infront of those of other people, I guess...
And since you always claimed that you, personally, wouldnt want to get rewards like the birds when doing content unsyched, you should have more empathy for people who want to get their birds now - when they're still having some prestige and require you to do the content properly. I wanted to get my birds the proper way - waiting for SB wasnt an option and SB itself would have killed my chance to farm them synched completly. Doing primals synched to get one kill is still very possible - I just helped some people with Shiva and Ramuh EX synched two weeks ago! - but getting a synched farm-party together? Yeah, sure...

To sum it up: IF (and that is a big IF) queuetimes are getting better in DF now, it is because people, who dont want to be there are there because its now they're only option (if we dont count PF - but since DF seems to be the only option for those who want to get their first time clear, we can ignore that PF exists, right?). And if its not even getting better them moving the EX-primals from RF to DF accomplished nothing - or at least nothing positive because it only took away a convenient tool from people who would have liked to use it.

[HyoMinPark]

I deleted a previous post just so I could respond to this. Because I am seriously losing my patience, and I am going to explain this stuff to you one more time. Maybe this time it will sink in. Sorry if my post comes off as rude; I am not trying to be. But this is ridiculous.

To everyone else, I apologize in advance for the wall of text.

Despite the logic the people who control the pf and the rf are just not getting their way at the moment for two months and thats all.

No one controls Party Finder or Duty Finder. I have no idea where you get that impression. I wasn't aware that Savage raiders had taken over PF, and transformed it into something were only those select elite can farm A12S.

Two months is still two months. It's not two weeks. It's not two days. It's two months. Two months that this content cannot be ran unsynced, and cheesed so hard it'll make people sick. Two months for people to farm for the things they want (birds, ponys, glamour items, whatever), so that they can focus on the 4.0 Ex primals and the 4.0 Savage tier when they are released. I don't know how else to say that just because you think the content becomes irrelevant two months after release does not actually make it so.

There was no patch note that came out saying that from here on out that primals will be in duty finder from here on out we all know that isnt the case. If people that haven't cleared things now and dont do it in the next few months then the chances of gettin a sync clear of these same runs are pretty slim. I personally had to go out of my way to use that pesky duty finder to clear all of the arr primals sync.

People in this thread, including you, are advocating for the complete removal of Raid Finder, and saying that us "veterans" or us "mentors" are obligated to teach/carry new people through Savage or Ex primals because the content is "dated." People, including you, are saying that we are "discriminating" and "excluding" new people when we say we want the option to queue Duty Complete; because we want the option for farm X primal in 8-10 minute runs max for loot, rather than wipe for 60 minutes during phase one, or an add phase, or even final phase.

I'm sorry that you had to go "out of your way" to get ARR Ex primal synced clears. But, unfortunately, the experience of one does not encompass the experiences of others. The same can be said for me being ABLE to get SYNCED clears for the Ex primals during patch 3.1, way after the content was "relevant" and when it was "dated." Perhaps this is when you should have sought out FCs or LS, made friends, and gotten people together to help you. Instead of coming here and complaining about how hard of a time you had.

Other people will not be as willing to do the same thing and now is their only chance.

Other people will also NOT be as willing (or willing at all) to be forced to accommodate new players when they want to farm, regardless if they are farming on Day 1, or 4.0 release day. Doesn't matter.

Bird farmers on the other hand have a 100 percent chance to get every single bird because of the totem system thats even better than the rng ponies. So you tell me why should we feel sorry for those complaining on here your chance to get your birds increase 100 percent.

Perhaps I should remind you that the token system was not always the case. I think it was implemented sometime between Nidhogg Ex and Sophia Ex, though I would need to look at patch notes to be sure.

And yeah, maybe it's "guaranteed" because people that want to farm the birds can get them once they reach 99 tokens. But if they're constantly thrown into parties with 2-4 new people that can't even make it past phase one, that could take an extremely long time, if they don't get frustrated/burnt out first. Thus why people make FARM parties and explicitly say NO BONUS, and want to queue with DUTY COMPLETE filters on. Because people sneak into farm parties all the time, and if you don't figure out who they are to blacklist, they can just rejoin the party after you disband and reform.

I didn't have to buy any of my birds, because I was "lucky," I guess. However, I had almost 90 tokens when I won Sephirot's bird, 75 tokens when I won Thordan's bird, and 150 tokens (this isn't counting the ones that I spent on weapons) for Sophia's bird--which I won BEFORE she was placed in the token system.

Maybe people want to farm their birds before they're put on token systems. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all.

And pony drop rates are not even that bad. I see them drop all the time when I'm just running stuff for Wonderous Tails. I didn't have to farm any of them 90 times, or 75 times, or 150+ times for the ponies. Hardest one for me was Ramuh, and even then, it wasn't half of the runs I spent for some of the birds. (It's extremely depressing to just watch that whistle hit the floor, though.)

While if things stayed the way they where the chance of someone wanted a sync clear would be far less. You guys arent losing anything other than the ability to cut people out of content thats been out for months Im sorry if thats so horrible to you but I just cant be concerned about it nor should others.

If you can't be "concerned" about us wanting smooth, clean farm clears (which we have the right to), then I can't be "concerned" with you wanting to clear at all (even though you have the right to). Veterans are not required to hold newbies hands. Mentors are not always required to teach sprouts, only when they are under mentor status/in a mentor roulette is it expected of them to help out. If it's mandatory for veterans and mentors to hold newbies hands, and written somewhere in the ToS now, please point it out. /s

No one here that hasnt cleared a certain piece of content is seeing their goals represented in the party finder nor rf while the bird farmers are weapon farmers have had what they wanted overwhelming represented in the pf and rf.

Make. Your. Own. Party. Then.
Don't see a SephEx clear party in Pf? Then make one.
Problem solved.

I actually looked at PF a few times the 2 hours or so I've been logged on, and in that time I saw CLEAR and LEARNING PARTIES for Nidhogg, Sophia, Sephirot, and Thordan.

So its just a matter of timing the time is up and just like someone who hasnt cleared something has to get over that 90 percent of the parties on pf dont want them and that nobody is gona que up for a rf practice session you guys gota bite the bullet to.

I don't know where you keep pulling out this 90% number from, but be prepared to back it up, since you bring it up so much.

I just checked my data center's PF for trials. As of right now, there are 2 Nidhogg learning parties up, 1 Zurvan learning/clear party up, and 2 Sephirot learning/clear parties up. There is also an individual who has made a Thordan bird farm, and IN THE DESCRIPTION SAID: "Already have the bird; just here to help out!" That 6 parties open to helping newbies/help people get birds. Out of 21 available parties. Take out the WT ones (there are 7), and that makes it 14. 6 out of 14 parties for HW Ex primals geared towards those that want to learn, or want the bird. That's almost 50% of the PFs. People just wanting to help.

pic #1

pic #2

The last three are two WT parties, and a Lootmaster bird farm.

And this isn't even counting Savage, but I did see an A9S learning and an A11S learning party earlier. Don't have picture proof, unfortunately. I'm sorry if your data center is different, but I'm sure that the learning/clear and even "help people get birds" parties are far from non-existent.

After all that is fairness right are do you just want your own interest represented only the whole time in the game. Like I said where is the post on raiders asking them to stop nerfing savage so people cant clear it , their arent any because nobody cares at this point.

Why on earth would raiders demand that SE not nerf SAVAGE CONTENT just so it's unclearable by all except the best of the best. Even when content is relevant on Day 1, there are no such threads. I have no idea where this came from either.

So I dont see why anyone cares about this temporary duty finder shift for content thats been out for months. I assure you that I qued up for nidhogg extreme the other day just to see if I could tell the difference from raid finder and I could. Whereas rf produces not even one extra person to even join duty finder will fill up just like it does for arr primals.

Except people keep saying to remove RF entirely, and keep ALL content in DF, Ex primals, Savage raids, everything. You, yourself, said you would prefer that.

ITs just like I said the roles have reversed you cant control the way the game plays to your advantage all the time sometimes others have to get their shot to.

So...now it's okay for you (meaning, those without [content] clears) to "control" the way the game plays to your advantage. I mean, the game was never played to farmers advantages either. Just because you can't seem to make your own learning PF for [content] while it's not "dated" doesn't mean that the raiders and farmers are "in control" of anything.


Addition: My advocating isn't for Raid Finder. If you have read any of my posts, you would know that. My advocating is for letting those who want to FARM do so without having to worry about bonuses crashing their farm parties. Secondly, I was referring to you specifically in some aspects of my post, bswpayton, but most were general you's. Because you are not the only one who wants RF (and filters) removed because of a false, preconceived notion that veterans and mentors and raiders "control" things.

I only referred to you, personally, on things where you talked about things you had to do, and things you thought (so, anywhere where you used "I" or "me" or "my").

[OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN]

-

What?.. Go search reddit and this forum on RF.
Pertaining to your other post, No doing ARR primals unsync isn't as hard as it was back then, one reason being that some classes received a buffed over the span of 3.0-3.57, introduction of Astrologian is one factor. Ravana ex was quite difficult during it's release, you're doing ravana at like 100-120i levels then it used to be done at lol, why do you think pubs can fail ravana normal?

Well technically HW primals still is relevant, since well primal birds. Stormblood has yet to hit so this "trend" isn't over we have like alittle less than 2 months to go you know lol.