Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[HyoMinPark]

Those arr ex and bismarck/ravana ex clears you obtained are only because those fights are very trivial at current ilv (or at lv 50 max ilv), so they're kind of in a grey area between "hard contents" and "easy contents." The same thing can be said about a1s farm via DF, for these relatively easy ex/savage contents most people will just ignore any bonuses just like normal dungeons/trials/raids.

I actually got my Bis and Rav clears back when the content was still difficult, when you could not cheese the mechanics like you can now. I was honestly shocked when I decided to actively farm RavEx for his bird at how ridiculously cheesed the fight could be, and how much of it was skipped. I wasn't at my current ilvl (266) for those clears. Same for the ARR extremes. I cleared all of those at level 50-52 before I even entered Ishgard. It was like: cleared the Hard Modes, now let's clear the Extremes. Did I farm them at current ilvl? Some of them. But some of them I also did, at most, ilvl 110-115. I maybe cleared Ramuh and Shiva in Ironworks, but I know I didn't clear the others with much higher level gear than their minimums (because for the longest time I wore the i90 AF gear because I loved the look; after that I wore the i110 Kirumu set because dat coat.)

My clears were split between making/joining clear PFs and just straight up queuing in DF for them. I know Titan Ex I had to turn to PF for that. But I farmed for Levi's and Shiva's ponies some days just queuing directly into them. I'd just do other stuff while I waited for the queue to pop. I know that the times are different now, but what I'm trying to say is: if I can do it, so can the others. And I am no hardcore raider.

The problem with DF lies in the actually difficult contents (a3s onwards for example, or some of the coil turns synced) that are quite impossible to clear with people who don't know the fight.

That's the way the content was designed though. It was not designed for people to go in blind, wipe maybe once or twice, and then clear. It was not made for people to just randomly queue into them like they would Expert Roulette, and clear with no communication whatsoever. Even groups for Creator Savage (barring those insane World First groups, but the more common statics that only Raid a couple hours a night, 2-3 days a week) are still working on progression for some of the later tiers. Some groups I know took months to clear A9S and A10S; even longer for A11S. But this doesn't mean the content excludes new people. They are more than capable of either forming their own learning PF for just whoever feels up to it that day, or for even forming their own static.

If you allow clear filter in DF/RF, then those easier ex/savage contents will be harder to clear for newer players via DF, since even if they're easy, farmers would most probably still choose to turn the clear filter on. If you leave all hard contents in DF without the clear filter, the actually hard contents' queues will be dead.

I wouldn't say the first part of this is necessarily true. I still see clear parties for BisEx or A9S or even super old ones like A4S. For a while, PFs for A4S clears => Glamour/Mount Farms were pretty common. And this was semi-recently on my data center. They may not be as common as the "A11S speed clears, 2-point strat" or "Zurvan Ex farm; no bonus, skip soar or disband" groups, but they aren't completely non-existent.

I like joining clear parties some days. Especially if it's something I don't have a clear for. If people made PFs to clear Midas Savage or Gordias Savage or even Second Coil Savage, I would join them. Sure my experience wouldn't be the same as clearing them during their tier, but I could still experience the fight nonetheless. Like-minded people are out there, but you gotta take the initiative to find them, and not just expect them to pop up for you.

I would expect farm parties to use the Duty Complete filter (regardless of where it is implemented, be it RF, DF, or PF). After all, their goal is to farm. They aren't looking to teach. So people really can't--and shouldn't--fault them for that. Just like the clear/learning parties. People shouldn't join them and expect a one-pull clear, and for the party to turn into some fast-paced farm group. They should expect wipes, and they should be ready to teach.

Filters or no filters, neither of those groups are going to change when it comes to goals. And I don't think taking away filters will increase or decrease the amount of clears achieved. If people are that determined to clear something, they will certainly find a way. The filters are there more so for convenience so people can be like "I feel like teaching today; let's roll Duty Incomplete and have some fun" or "I really just want to farm [content] today; I don't feel up for teaching people how to clear it, so I'm going to roll Duty Complete."


EDIT/ADDITION: Since I have reached my posting limit today (seriously, can this not be a thing... it's like I have to pick and choose what to respond to... but anyways), thanks for the clarification aleph_null. :3 I wasn't trying to sound rude or abrasive or confrontational. Whether your comment was directed at me or not, I just responded with my opinion on things. Guess I shouldn't have assumed it was just because it was posted after mine. ^^;;;

@bswpayton: I give up. I don't know how to get you to understand that you still had access to content in the Raid Finder, regardless of whether or not you were "late" to the content. If you couldn't get the Incomplete queue to pop, you still had Party Finder to help you get a group together of like-minded individuals that want to learn the fight, whether it be with the help of guides/veterans or just straight up blind. If you did not have the PF option, and Ex primals could only be entered via the Raid Finder, then yeah, maybe you would have run into some issues. Or maybe, people like you who are not clearing the content at zero-hour, would have faster queues, because that would be the only avenue for the duties. As it is now, though, that is not the case. The option was always there: RF or PF. Like others have said, back when Ex primals were only in DF, some of them had extremely long queues, and some never popped at all (Thordan Ex), similar to the situation now. What did those people probably do? They probably turned to Party Finder at that point, looking for help/people. If they decided to just whine and pout and not do anything to rectify their situation, then that's on them. Not others, not the system.

I don't care about if the primals are in Raid Finder or Duty Finder or if they make some Special Shiny Ex Primal Finder for it. Same for Savage. But if I want to make a farm, and guarantee to filter out bonuses from my farm because I don't feel like wiping for 60 minutes with no clears, or I don't feel like teaching that day and just want to get my loot, then I think I should have the option to do so. And that's not discriminatory, or exclusionary. The same would go for clear/learning groups if they wanted to just get people together that haven't cleared the content at all, jumping in completely blind and ready for any surprises. I've met people like that before. And it applies to those learning parties that have veterans join and expect a one-hit-KO for SephEx and then throw a fit when that doesn't happen, and they're reminded that it was a LEARNING party. Filter out vets, include only new people. It can go both ways.