Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[Talraen]

Ever time I tried raid finder it didn't work how where u having any luck

Were you doing content you had previously completed? Based on the various Raid Finder threads, it seems that its primary use was to discriminate against people who haven't yet cleared the content.

[Feidam]

Were you doing content you had previously completed? Based on the various Raid Finder threads, it seems that its primary use was to discriminate against people who haven't yet cleared the content.

That explains why it's hard for some to even get into some extremes and beginning raiding. That type of functionality needs to go imo. Use party finder for that type of exclusion. This has actually irritated me. Perhaps it's time for the raids to just be added to duty finder as well.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

That explains why it's hard for some to even get into some extremes and beginning raiding. That type of functionality needs to go imo. Use party finder for that type of exclusion. This has actually irritated me. Perhaps it's time for the raids to just be added to duty finder as well.

All the raids are already in DF lol, there is not one left in RF

[Feidam]

All the raids are already in DF lol, there is not one left in RF

For now as they just shifted all the old content. That will change, however, and as stuff is added to stormblood people will be back to this type of situation.

[Vidu]

That explains why it's hard for some to even get into some extremes and beginning raiding. That type of functionality needs to go imo. Use party finder for that type of exclusion. This has actually irritated me. Perhaps it's time for the raids to just be added to duty finder as well.

1) Raids and Extremes are now in DF
2) RF gives you basically the option to queue as "I have cleared the content" or "I havent cleared the content" - as soon as you have cleared something, you can choose the option you prefer. And that is a good function - it actually allows people to do this fights, using the RF instead of queueing for it, waiting - and the ending up with 3 people who havent got the slightest idea about the encounter (and two of them dont speak english, so you cant even explain!). Why does DF has to be a paradise for people who want to wipe within the first phase of Nidhogg Extreme because they cant dodge dives?
3) Even when using PF you're still queueing up by DF/RF - if you put "No Bonus" into your PF group (something, that is absolutly legit, mind you)and you try to queue up for the content, selecting "cleared it!" it wont let you if one person still hasnt cleared it. It is more likely that this person will be replaced before you even get into the fight if you find out before. A sudden bonus-message appearing when you expected a farm-group often leads to people insta-leaving.

It isnt used to "discriminate" people who havent gotten the clear yet - it is used to ensure that people who know the fight and would like to get their loot can make sure that they get paired up with people who know what they're doing.
Everyone who says "Oh, but its so aweful that people can choose not to queue with those who havent cleared it yet!" seems to me like a person whos hoping for a carry.

You guys make it sound as if people who want to farm content are such monsters because they dont want to hold every newbies hand through savage personally...
I like helping people and I do that as often as I can - but sometimes I'd like to focus on my own progress. And that progress might not be to get to the add-phase in Zurvan EX but to actually kill him and get the weapons I need.

[KDSilver]

I don't know why some people talked about discrimination.

When we want to farm, we're expecting people to know the strategy, of course, cause we want some weapons or mount.
Why would players waste time make newbie learn again and again and never get clears?

(If I want to help new player, i'll go in a practise pf and tell them that i'm here to help)

Before farming it, these same players went in practise pf and such.
You go with people that are sharing the same goal as you, that is all...

It's simple to understand and totally logical.

[Pintsized]

It isnt used to "discriminate" people who havent gotten the clear yet - it is used to ensure that people who know the fight

You don't seem to know the proper meaning of 'discriminate' because this is a perfect example of it.

[Sida]

You don't seem to know the proper meaning of 'discriminate' because this is a perfect example of it.

Discrimination comes into play in a situation where everyone applying should have an equal change for the task at hand based on their qualifications, but are not selected for a reason outside of said qualifications. An example of the discrimination would be when a female applicant with equal qualifications is not considered into a task where gender doesn't matter.

However, if a production is looking for an actor for a male role, it's not discrimination to not consider female applicants, it's simply common sense.

What I'm getting at, if the task at hand is to form a party of people who have already cleared the content for purpose of farming, it is not discrimination to exclude those who haven't yet done so, they simply are not meeting the qualifications to the task at hand.

[Vidu]

You don't seem to know the proper meaning of 'discriminate' because this is a perfect example of it.

"Excluding" people based on their experience is not discrimination - if you apply for a job that asked for three years of experience without ever having worked in that buisness at all and they go with someone who can bring five years of experience to the table, was that discrimination? No, it wasnt - they hired the person who could get the job done for them, because thats what they were looking for, instead of teaching a new kid how the buisness runs.

Its not a "no lala"-queue (that would be discrimination) - its "I would like to do X* - please, match me with people who share my goal as close as possible to make my experience in this game more pleasent"
*X can be both here: Learn the fight aswell as farm the fight.

Throwing around a word like "Discrimination" - which is a real problem for women, muslims, people of colour (and depending on your culuture potientially many more - they may forgive me for cutting them off here) - when it comes to seperate queues for people with different intrests in a video game seems a bit excessive, honestly.
We all should be playing because we enjoy the game - it might differ from person to person though what they are enjoying in the game right now. A chain is as strong as their weakest link - and a ex-primal/raid-group can only progress as fast as their slowest memember. Its very frustrating to always go snailpace when you're a cheetah (probably a bit excessive, but hey). Ideally the RF would be used to split people into "learning the first phases" - "learning later phases and ready to get the kill" - "know the fight, got the kill, want to kill some more (=farm)"
But you know why that doesnt work? Because people who havent seen any of the fight yet queue for "later phases". Because people join farm parties when they havent gotten the kill yet - without asking if its okay and explaining themself ("Hey, I got this boss to 5% like seven times, but never got the kill - is it cool that I come along?"). Because people put up PFs with "Kill party" or "Clear for a friend" and suddenly you find yourself with seven people who need explantions about "There will be pruple circles on the ground, putting bleed on you - dont stand in them. (And why the hell am I explaining this in a kill-ex-primal-group?! Didnt you learn that in Brayflox? Oh no, my bad... green puddles there...)"

We all want to play this game and have some fun with it - my idea of what is fun might differ from yours. Fun for me might be to finally get that bird - while fun for you is to finally get the kill.
And that doesnt go well together - I play the game as much for fun as you do. I'm not here for your fun. I'm not here as a forced teacher. There might be occassions when I'm having fun teaching (and for me, personally, there certainly are) - but there are also occassions when fun is: Quick, fast kills with a group of people who know what they're doing.
And if thats what I want right now, DF isnt an option. It is only an option for those who "just want to see the fight", making it useless for those who want to farm it.
I'm simply asking of the DF to pair me up with people of my own skill/experience-level - that can be both first timer or farmer. Personally, I would feel bad being the snail in a group of cheetahs, knowing fully well that the problem here is me. I am not so delusional and self-absorb to believe that everyone out there is playing the game to help me (or any other newbie) to get through content.

And a lot of posts from people who dont like the idea of seperating farm-people in DF from learning people seems to go into that direction: "Oh no, those poor newbies wont get the help of experienced people anymore! They wont end up in groups that can potentially kill the boss anymore, because they're not getting the 4 people who have this on farm and testing their luck in DF anymore!"
Not only is this way of thinking very belittling towards newbies because it implies that they need this help and arent able to challenge the fight themself (and if they really cant: maybe they should go back and practice a little more - do you believe that everyone who has killed it was born with the knowledge about how to kill Zurvan EX? No - they learnt their ropes aswell. I am playing this game since 2.0 now, its not so surprising that I know mechanics better than a person who started last week. And its not wrong to tell that person "Yeah, you gotta practice a bit more before you can do this" - quite different even, this is a way of progression next to gear-progression.) - it also leads to a lot of frustration for the person who would like to get a nice, clean kill in. A person, I remind you again, who is playing a game, just like newbie. Newbie having fun isnt more important than Oldie having fun. The RF-queue-option reflects that by letting everyone pick what comes clostest to the experience they consider "fun" right now.

If you are however on about how long the queue times are for certain primals: thats not a problem with RF. It was the same in ARR and DF for certain, more difficult primals since there was no point in queueing for them - specially not, when you had killed the primal and wanted to farm. Chances of getting a kill were and are so low that if you want to farm it, you have to take the slightly bitter pill of making a PF.
I sincerly doubt that a lot of people who are queueing for EX-primals with "clear" selected would queue normally. They queue becaus ethey know its "safe" to do that. Because they know they wont waste their free afternoon with a bunch of strangers and leave the game for work with the feeling to have accomplished nothing.

Asking for a "farm"-option in DF (what RF basically provided) is not discrimination. Its there to match people with matching goals and experience on the fights. You know how they're having swimlanes in swimming pools sometimes that are reserved for people who want to excersice seriously? Because thats "fun" for them and their goal right now? We are asking for that - we are not asking for a "no lala"-option.

[Talraen]

"Excluding" people based on their experience is not discrimination - if you apply for a job that asked for three years of experience without ever having worked in that buisness at all and they go with someone who can bring five years of experience to the table, was that discrimination? No, it wasnt - they hired the person who could get the job done for them, because thats what they were looking for, instead of teaching a new kid how the buisness runs.

I believe I was the first one to use the term "discriminate" in this thread, and I am sorry for doing so. I actually meant it in the non-loaded sense of deciding whether to include something or not. You're right, the raid finder does not qualify for the pejorative sense of discriminate. That's why I switched to using exclude.