Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[Dzian]

Please explain how the option to prevent people who haven't cleared content resulted in "a lot of people got a lot of clears." I'm pretty confused by that.

Using raid finder in Sophia ex. I managed to get about 50 clears quite a few weapons and couple of other bits. With a very high success rate. I think maybe 5 or 6 of the raid finder groups I joined disbanded..

Queueing seph ex or Thordan ex in duty finder. Before raid finder was added was pretty much a guaranteed waste of time.... thus no one queued it. Which is why they added rid finder in the first place

[Dualgunner]

Please explain how the option to prevent people who haven't cleared content resulted in "a lot of people got a lot of clears." I'm pretty confused by that.

Because people who want to help people learn will not click "cleared". People who want clears and farms don't have to deal with teaching, meaning toxicity from frustrated people is gone, and people who want to learn are paired either with others wanting to learn or others who want to teach.

[Talraen]

Using raid finder in Sophia ex. I managed to get about 50 clears quite a few weapons and couple of other bits. With a very high success rate. I think maybe 5 or 6 of the raid finder groups I joined disbanded..

Queueing seph ex or Thordan ex in duty finder. Before raid finder was added was pretty much a guaranteed waste of time.... thus no one queued it. Which is why they added rid finder in the first place

Oh I see you meant successful wins, not first clears. In any case, while I can obviously see how this benefits you, surely you can see that it punishes many others? Having to struggle with bad parties to get a clear is better than not even being allowed to try, is it not? Especially when everyone who has the clear and could thus help you is being given a direct incentive to not help you (i.e., a higher success rate by not allowing new players).

Because people who want to help people learn will not click "cleared". People who want clears and farms don't have to deal with teaching, meaning toxicity from frustrated people is gone, and people who want to learn are paired either with others wanting to learn or others who want to teach.

Does anyone actually do this? I don't use the raid finder, but all the anecdotal evidence I've seen says no.

Also it's kind of alarming how casually people in this thread dismiss the unwashed masses. God forbid we should have to teach someone. Surely the party finder is a separate but equal method for those poor souls.

[Dualgunner]

Ask yourself: Why isn't everyone a mentor? Answer should come to you as: Not everyone wants to teach. RF gives an option to separate people out. God forbid people play the game without having to teach someone new *every time*.

[Vidu]

Oh I see you meant successful wins, not first clears. In any case, while I can obviously see how this benefits you, surely you can see that it punishes many others? Having to struggle with bad parties to get a clear is better than not even being allowed to try, is it not? Especially when everyone who has the clear and could thus help you is being given a direct incentive to not help you (i.e., a higher success rate by not allowing new players).

And having them in DF without the option to select "clear" punishes everyone who wants to actually farm and clear that content - not somehow get the kill. Forcing experienced people to help new ones get their clears isnt a good solution - it only leads to a lot of frustration and fighting between those who would like to farm that content and those who havent even read a guide or cant even understand the simplest mechanics.
Again: It is a good function. It allows people to focus on their own progression, if they wish to do so. I shouldnt have to help everyone, sometimes it has to be okay for me to focus on my own wishes. Sophia EX is really the best example - a kill there takes 10 minutes, not the 40 minutes I spend with a kill-party a week ago. But in that case it was even fine for me to spend 40 minutes, because I was in the mood to help out, teach and explain that fight. But when I'm not but still want that bird, that HAS to be fine too. No one should be expected to play this game for the sake of others.

Does anyone actually do this? I don't use the raid finder, but all the anecdotal evidence I've seen says no.

Also it's kind of alarming how casually people in this thread dismiss the unwashed masses. God forbid we should have to teach someone. Surely the party finder is a separate but equal method for those poor souls.

Yes, I do. When I feel like helping out and teaching, I will queue for my mentor roulette, for EX-primals, raids... I will join learn and "help to kill"-parties in PF when I see them and when I have the time on my hands.
But please explain to me why it makes me such a horrible person that once in a while I'd just like to get some smooth, quick runs in?
Why do I have to teach and explain the fight everytime I queue up for it again and again and again?
Why is the progress of every new person much more important than my own goals?

[Andevom]

Oh I see you meant successful wins, not first clears. In any case, while I can obviously see how this benefits you, surely you can see that it punishes many others? Having to struggle with bad parties to get a clear is better than not even being allowed to try, is it not? Especially when everyone who has the clear and could thus help you is being given a direct incentive to not help you (i.e., a higher success rate by not allowing new players).

There was nothing preventing people who had cleared from queuing "Duty Incomplete" to help out people looking for clears, if that's what they wished to do. Some did, by the way (plus it was essentially a guaranteed tome bonus). It's not like they took the ability to form PFs away, it just provided an easier avenue for people to get what they wanted.

I highly doubt there was a massive number of highly skilled players that just couldn't pull off a clear because of the RF not allowing them to queue with completers.

[Belisaire]

I don't understand why people don't just use party finder to make a learning party. Like, it's legitimately confusing to me.

I am notorious for attempting extreme fights at least a year after they come out. I'm not a hardcore raider and I mostly just don't have the patience for it. I hear tales of people 'never being able to find a learning party,' but whenever I have gone to get a learning party together, I've been able to do it. It used to take a couple to a few hours back when party finder was only server based, but now I can get a full learning party together in 45 minutes. And that's far more useful to someone looking to learn the fight, because the people joining that learning party know what they are signing up for. People can help walk you through things and explain, and you learn the fight, and it's great. People DO join these things, despite the naysayers.

No, you shouldn't join a farm party to get your first clear. Consider Thordan Ex. There's a mechanic in that turns into a wiped raid if one person doesn't know how to handle it. The bottom line is that people join farm parties for safe, quick clears because they are grinding for loot and that is not a fun process. So they want it to be quick and at least painful as possible. It's a matter of time. And like I said, my experience has been that setting up your own learning parties in party finders gets you those first wins quickly. Waiting for someone else to do it or be charitable with their time does not.

If I... you know, a ilevel 236 DRK, can get a learning party together two weeks ago and get my lanner by the end of the same weekend, I'm sure others can.

[Talraen]

Yes, I do. When I feel like helping out and teaching, I will queue for my mentor roulette, for EX-primals, raids... I will join learn and "help to kill"-parties in PF when I see them and when I have the time on my hands.
But please explain to me why it makes me such a horrible person that once in a while I'd just like to get some smooth, quick runs in?

I'm not calling you, or anyone here, a bad person. I'm just pointing out that you're asking for a feature which has only one function, which is to exclude people. Square Enix's policy here seems to be to allow for this exclusion while the content is new and particularly difficult, but to open it up to everyone after a time, but even that bone thrown to newbies seems to be too much to ask.

[Viki]

Ill just say this. it being this close to SB... and fact no more RF. i wont be DFing any bird parties regardless now in derp pf. ill do it if i know the ppl or some1 vouches for them

[Feidam]

Most of the clears I've gotten in heavensward were through the party finder. It is used. However, let me tell you I have seen looking for first clear party sit all day on the weekend and no one join. However, the already cleared party goes on a rampage. party Finder alreadylet you set up raids. Having a raid finder that is in the same vein of the duty finder that allows exclusion seems redundant especially if they are trying to figure out why only 10ish percent of the population does this content.