Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[Dzian]

I'm not calling you, or anyone here, a bad person. I'm just pointing out that you're asking for a feature which has only one function, which is to exclude people. Square Enix's policy here seems to be to allow for this exclusion while the content is new and particularly difficult, but to open it up to everyone after a time, but even that bone thrown to newbies seems to be too much to ask.

it doesn't exclude anyone though. there's a practice option in the raid finder which you should use if you wantto practice.... just because that option is going to put you with people who also want to practice and not with people who will just carry you does not mean you are excluded in any way....

I got my first clears for Sophia zurvan and even nidhogg using the raid finders practice options,,, there is no way I was excluded from the content.

the only thing I was excluded from was farm parties. but as I hadn't cleared the fight I was in no way ready to farm it....

[Vidu]

I'm not calling you, or anyone here, a bad person. I'm just pointing out that you're asking for a feature which has only one function, which is to exclude people. Square Enix's policy here seems to be to allow for this exclusion while the content is new and particularly difficult, but to open it up to everyone after a time, but even that bone thrown to newbies seems to be too much to ask.

Yes, because the content still requires you to do mechanics and know the fight - we're not that overgeared yet. And because some people still want to farm that content to get their birds or weapons or whatever. Again: The progression of newbies shouldnt be more important then the progression of anyone else. The feature is in place to seperate those who want fast, quick kills and those who are okay with learning and slow progression (or need to learn the fight and should therefore be okay with learning)
That "bone" you're throwing there - thats "my" time. (not actually mine, but you get the idea, I hope)

[Vhailor]

Having to struggle with bad parties to get a clear is better than not even being allowed to try, is it not?

I'm not sure I agree with this statement, personally.

In some sense, you're correct; if you remove emotions from the equation, struggling with a bad party provides a hands-on chance to learn mechanics, thereby improving your ability to clear the fight down the road. Over time, you'll improve enough to the point where you can get a win.

That said, emotions can't be removed from the equation. Random groups are composed of radically different players. Some want to learn, some don't. Some want to teach, some don't. When you throw a mixed group of these personalities at a fight, it often becomes stressful for reasons entirely apart from gameplay. People will quit, people will yell, people will be passive-aggressive, people will continue getting hit by the same damned move, frustrating everyone else. I've been through groups like this (I don't like to be the first to leave), and they SUCK. They make for a far more miserable experience than simply not bothering with the fight in the first place, to me at least.

It's for this reason that I support the Raid Finder, or any tool that enables some amount of segregation amongst the player base. Yes, there are downsides, but in my mind, they're necessary. And I say this as precisely the type of player this discrimination most harms (skilled, well-researched, but recently returned from a long break).

After all, at the end of the day, automated systems like the Duty Finder are around solely to speed up the previously-manual process of building a group, something featured in most every MMO. Manual control allowed people to discriminate in all sorts of ways if desired. New players still found opportunities and, what's more, the opportunities they found were much more likely to be accommodating. That beats joining a group that doesn't want you around any day of the week, in my opinion.

[Misutoraru]

Does anyone actually do this? I don't use the raid finder, but all the anecdotal evidence I've seen says no.

Also it's kind of alarming how casually people in this thread dismiss the unwashed masses. God forbid we should have to teach someone. Surely the party finder is a separate but equal method for those poor souls.

sadly, 99% of time you will never able to queue a full party for "Not yet clear"
i try it few times and never able to queue anything
while i start my own practice group with PF I can usually get a full party less than 30min

[Dualgunner]

Ask yourself: Why isn't everyone a mentor? Answer should come to you as: Not everyone wants to teach. RF gives an option to separate people out. God forbid people play the game without having to teach someone new *every time*.

[Andevom]

Oh I see you meant successful wins, not first clears. In any case, while I can obviously see how this benefits you, surely you can see that it punishes many others? Having to struggle with bad parties to get a clear is better than not even being allowed to try, is it not? Especially when everyone who has the clear and could thus help you is being given a direct incentive to not help you (i.e., a higher success rate by not allowing new players).

There was nothing preventing people who had cleared from queuing "Duty Incomplete" to help out people looking for clears, if that's what they wished to do. Some did, by the way (plus it was essentially a guaranteed tome bonus). It's not like they took the ability to form PFs away, it just provided an easier avenue for people to get what they wanted.

I highly doubt there was a massive number of highly skilled players that just couldn't pull off a clear because of the RF not allowing them to queue with completers.

[Belisaire]

I don't understand why people don't just use party finder to make a learning party. Like, it's legitimately confusing to me.

I am notorious for attempting extreme fights at least a year after they come out. I'm not a hardcore raider and I mostly just don't have the patience for it. I hear tales of people 'never being able to find a learning party,' but whenever I have gone to get a learning party together, I've been able to do it. It used to take a couple to a few hours back when party finder was only server based, but now I can get a full learning party together in 45 minutes. And that's far more useful to someone looking to learn the fight, because the people joining that learning party know what they are signing up for. People can help walk you through things and explain, and you learn the fight, and it's great. People DO join these things, despite the naysayers.

No, you shouldn't join a farm party to get your first clear. Consider Thordan Ex. There's a mechanic in that turns into a wiped raid if one person doesn't know how to handle it. The bottom line is that people join farm parties for safe, quick clears because they are grinding for loot and that is not a fun process. So they want it to be quick and at least painful as possible. It's a matter of time. And like I said, my experience has been that setting up your own learning parties in party finders gets you those first wins quickly. Waiting for someone else to do it or be charitable with their time does not.

If I... you know, a ilevel 236 DRK, can get a learning party together two weeks ago and get my lanner by the end of the same weekend, I'm sure others can.

[Viki]

Ill just say this. it being this close to SB... and fact no more RF. i wont be DFing any bird parties regardless now in derp pf. ill do it if i know the ppl or some1 vouches for them

[Feidam]

Most of the clears I've gotten in heavensward were through the party finder. It is used. However, let me tell you I have seen looking for first clear party sit all day on the weekend and no one join. However, the already cleared party goes on a rampage. party Finder alreadylet you set up raids. Having a raid finder that is in the same vein of the duty finder that allows exclusion seems redundant especially if they are trying to figure out why only 10ish percent of the population does this content.

[TaleraRistain]

The most recent of these was released 7 months ago. The oldest was released in November 2015. We're going to be able to unsync this content in 2 months. There's no reason to put these back into Raid Finder. Anyone who was serious about tackling this content and getting their clears has had ample time to do so.