Revelations from Patch 3.56

[ADVSS]

ilberd is a straight up d bag......he shouldve been longer lasting for SB....at least hes a villian you love to hate. hes done everything wrong then go offs himself and makes us forced into a war. ...and no chance of vengeance on him or every number of bad things hes done since 2.x Im a little pissed all that became of him was a dungeon boss....and confused by the omega cutscene, did he stop shinryuu at all? they both just crashed...evenly disputed as far as i can see, I saw no dispersion of aether, and to be blunt i wasnt honestly impressed at omega, didnt seem equipped like ultima to really handle a primal,

[Kallera]

ilberd is a straight up d bag......he shouldve been longer lasting for SB....at least hes a villian you love to hate. hes done everything wrong then go offs himself and makes us forced into a war. ...and no chance of vengeance on him or every number of bad things hes done since 2.x Im a little pissed all that became of him was a dungeon boss....and confused by the omega cutscene, did he stop shinryuu at all? they both just crashed...evenly disputed as far as i can see, I saw no dispersion of aether, and to be blunt i wasnt honestly impressed at omega, didnt seem equipped like ultima to really handle a primal,

About that, the blast seemed to be upwards, which suggests something may have intervened, (if they were uninterrupted, wouldn't a radial explosion be more lokely?)

Another thing piqued my interest during the scene with Zenos, which may suggest where things are going. Specifically, the officer.

The hunt for Omega and the unknown eikon continues, though both yet elude us. My lord...their battle caused considerable damage across the reigon...Should we perchance divert some of our forces from the search to undertake necessary reconstruction work?

Now this could just be showing us what a scrooge Zenos is, but...judging from the italics and the general attitude from the officer, it sounds like this was an understatement, and that Shinryu caused devastation across gyr abania. The alliance may be trying to retake the region, but if that devastation was indescriminate(read:yes), then maybe there is a real battle for hearts and minds in the region and the realm beyond.

[Theodric]

My guess? Zenos is loosely based on Judge Bergan from FF12. We know there's going to be at least some references to FF12 due to the track record of Garlean Legions aligning loosely with the games that share their numbers. Nael was clearly loosely inspired by Sephiroth and Regula ended up being a General Leo rather than the Kefka quite a few people posting here expected him to be. Since we've been told that nobody will sympathise with Zenos it's unlikely that he's inspired by Gabranth or Vayne Solidor from FF12. Both of those characters had valid justifications and reasons for their actions, if not their methods used.

Of course, this is all just pure speculation but I have a feeling that Zenos is mostly in it for himself and his own amusement. I doubt he is terribly committed to Garlemald as a whole - which may or may not bring forth some conflict with his father. We can't rule out an outside influence either since we've already been told that we'll need to go to Othard to learn more about him. That he wields a katana is interesting and I'm going to call it now: somehow I think he will end up becoming Yojimbo in a similar way to how the Archbishop and his loyal followers became the Knights of the Round. In fact, wasn't Yojimbo basically in it for himself given that he was based around being paid gil? Hm...

Zenos' attitude may also be what leads us towards getting our 'Larsa' and adds further nuances to the ongoing conflict with Garlemald.

[Cilia]

Everyone knows that if you die in Japanese fiction, there's 10% chance you'll respawn as an amnesic masked bad guy.
(Upwards of 25% if it has the word "Gundam" in the title!)

I... suppose so. I mean it's not like it's impossible, but how this could have happened I just can't see right now.

But did you support Ulfric? It's all void if you supported Ulfric.

'course not! While there's no indication I've seen that he shares their viewpoints, Ulfric tolerates racism and bigotry in his city and among his soldiers. The Dude does not abide!

I never support the Empire either, due to the fact they're enforcing a restriction on religious freedom - more or less at gunpoint, but even so. If forced to choose a side I would support the Imperials, though. Stupid [kupo!] Nazi Elves...

[Belhi]

Zenos' attitude may also be what leads us towards getting our 'Larsa' and adds further nuances to the ongoing conflict with Garlemald.

This is my suspicion to. I think we will find a Garlean that sees Zenos as bad for Garlemald. That said, I think it would be interesting if said Garlean start off as a enemy so its clear that their reason for working with us is to protect Garlemald rather than simply 'seeing the light'.

As much as I know you don't like it Theodric, my gut feeling is still that Zenos will kill the emperor as part of a play for power and frame the death on the WoL.

[seekified]

Glad we got confirmation that it is indeed Yda in the Stormblood trailer.

As you say, most of 3.5 has felt incredibly rushed (both from a content standpoint but also because of the numerous and rather uncharacteristic stability issues we've seen), but I'm fairly happy with this ending. My one question mark after all this is why Ilberd would summon Shinryu? Him being Ala Mhigan, Rhalgr would've made a lot more sense to me. I am aware of the past connections between Omega and Shinryu in the franchise, but still.

[LineageRazor]

My one question mark after all this is why Ilberd would summon Shinryu?

As others have mentioned in this thread, the game itself tosses a lot of excuses as to why a dragon might have emerged. Ilberd dreaming of a force to surpass Bahamut (thus producing a Primal that loosely resembles Bahamut), Nidhogg's eyes being used in the process, and so on and so forth. The meta reason, I'm sure, is that it is another piece of Final Fantasy fanservice: The devs knew folks would get excited about at Shinryu/Omega matchup, and so had to fish for reasons to produce that Primal instead of the more sensible Rhalgr.

Personally, I find the in-game reasons to be kind of unsatisfying, particularly since Ala Mihgans have attempted to summon Rhalgr before. It seems logical to me that a summon in his image would have been the natural result of so many Ala Mihgan sacrifices. But what is is what is.

[Anonymoose]

Personally, I find the in-game reasons to be kind of unsatisfying, particularly since Ala Mihgans have attempted to summon Rhalgr before. It seems logical to me that a summon in his image would have been the natural result of so many Ala Mihgan sacrifices. But what is is what is.

I should probably bring it over from the other thread, but I went back for the quotes and context on that. It's definitely part of the "Past Final Fantasy Theme Park" thing (pulling in Omega v. Shinryu), imho. But Ilberd admits up front that he lured the Resistance into a trap so that rather than pray to Rhalgr in any organized way, they'd simply feel malice for the Empire; pure hatred and desire for revenge. He considered it a more "pure" way to empower a primal than prayer or worship.

Shinryu OP

I'd like to try to cram all my Ilberd → Shinryu replies into one post (and perhaps quote it from here if needed, lol).

Saying up front that we can (and should always) debate ways we might disagree with what the game wants us to believe, what the game wants us to believe is quite clear, in my humble opinion. Most of it is spoon-fed via exposition, unfortunately ... but it's there.

Did you hear their cries as victory was snatched away from them? Even with their dying breaths they cursed the Empire! Never has their desire for vengeance been so raw, so true! A god has no need of faith when summoned by so pure a purpose!

Unlike most primals, the summoning of "Shinryu" does not include a focused ritual. There is no group prayer to a god (or it probably would have been Rhalgr). "The Griffin" led the Ala Mhigan Resistance to what they believed was an assured victory, and then set them up to be slaughtered in the most demoralizing way possible. Their assured victory was taken from them when they saw the Empire's reinforcements - you can see their sorrow as the tone of the scene shifts when the magitek arrive. The only sentiments present are soul-crushing disappointment and the pure desire that the Empire will eventually suffer. That is what Ilberd harnessed.

Oh, yes, I know their limitations─which is why I will call upon a deity more terrible than the very black wyrm of the Calamity itself!

This is pretty much the extent of Ilberd's intent: "Worse than the Calamity, please."

Think back to Louisoix for a moment. If watching the world become engulfed in flame and dwelling on a desire to see it reborn results in the image of a phoenix (and what scholar would not think of the phoenix when dwelling on rebirth from ashes), what does a man who witnessed the Calamity think of when he imagines, worse, please? (Especially when he's holding the eyes of Bahamut's brood-brother, which long seethed with nothing but a desire for pure vengeance and destruction.)

Just in case you don't arrive at this conclusion on your own, Alphinaud and Krile make sure to press it.

It was like watching a nightmare unfold before our very eyes. Ilberd's primal manifested in the form of a colossal dragon─a being of pure violence. It burst forth from the cocoon with such terrible force...

That such a horror should spring from the eyes of Nidhogg comes as no surprise. Nor do I wonder at its form. Ilberd all but announced it in the moments prior to his death. Plainly, it was his dying wish to visit a second Calamity upon the Empire.

They're trying really hard to get you to arrive at the idea that Ilberd simply reproduced what he saw in the Calamity, and the Eyes were the perfect tool with which to do so. (For the record, yeah, it does kind of bother me that they rapidly mashed the 8-Man Raid themes into the main scenario to entangle the stakes and get us all hyped up only to require Alphinaud to explain why those themes' origins should be so obvious.)

Merlwyb and Kan-E-Senna also go out of their way to let you know that the downing of the imperial airship and the sights they witnessed from afar just made them think Bahamut over and over again.

So while we should of course contemplate whether or not these assumptions are accurate, I think what the game wants us to think was nicely summarized.

Also, indeed, Shinryu is (as far as everyone present is concerned) a convenient temporary label. The fact that Omega vs. Shinryu is just where it's at if you want a Final Fantasy themed amusement park (which Yoshida-san absolutely does) is a "happy coincidence", lol.

While most among us could think only of Bahamut when looking upon the primal's form, the Domans were heard to whisper the name “Shinryu.” It would appear that the being resembles a creature of Far Eastern legend, and we have found it convenient to refer to it as such.

The more I think about it, the more I'm curious if somewhere in the 3.X cycle, they started slightly adjusting the story to mesh some of the raid themes into the Mainscenario based on Alexander feedback. ("Raids should feel like they matter, like Coil!") It would explain the more awkward bits of the story, not the least of which why we'd throw Nidhogg's eyes over a bridge where "no one could ever get them" (except for our primary foes, the immortal transdimensional ghost-demons).

[Theodric]

-snip-

I wouldn't grumble too much about Varis being killed off so long as he gets ample time in the spotlight before that point. One of my major criticisms of the story right now is that nuances of antagonists are revealed and then...they're killed off rather suddenly. I'd also question why they killed off the previous Emperor to bring in a new Emperor only to kill him off after only a handful of scenes, though. I do think - and hope - that there's more to Varis than meets the eye, though. Regula's comments in particular revealed quite a lot about him and it'd be neat to see that pay off.

[Belhi]

I wouldn't grumble too much about Varis being killed off so long as he gets ample time in the spotlight before that point. One of my major criticisms of the story right now is that nuances of antagonists are revealed and then...they're killed off rather suddenly. I'd also question why they killed off the previous Emperor to bring in a new Emperor only to kill him off after only a handful of scenes, though. I do think - and hope - that there's more to Varis than meets the eye, though. Regula's comments in particular revealed quite a lot about him and it'd be neat to see that pay off.

If he was going to die, what I would chose is to have Varis show a willingness to consider a truce and perhaps negotiate peace only to have him assassinated at the negociations and have us blamed for it. This would make Zenos be able to rally Garlemald proper behind the guise of a call for justice as the 'dishonourable murder' and paint the Eorzean alliance as backstabbers and dishonourable while not actually making the EA backstabbers and dishonourable. Simply put Zenos would play both sides. Enter friendly Garlean who comes to realise Zenos deceived Garlemald for his own ends but has no way to countermand Zenos directly and so makes a truce with us to stop Zenos.

Zenos would turn out to have some kind of protection that makes it impossible for us to actually take him down and so we need to find the source of that. We discover he was once Governor of Doma and gained this protection there and as such have a road (boat) trip to seek a way to stop him as the full righteous fury of Garlemald prepares to mobilise and bare down on Eorzea.

This would also mean it would end with no current heir to the throne of Garlemald and the potential for total anarchy and war in Garlemald, perhaps with signs of Ascian involvement, queue our need to travel to Garlemald and try and keep the entire continent from burning down by adding our Garlean ally in trying to stablise the empire and hopefully put someone with a less 'conquer everything and treat non citizens like slaves' attitude in power. Note, I am not asking for a whitewashing of Garlemald, just taking off some of less pleasant edges. Most of Ilsebard would have been under Garlean control for so long now that only the elderly would remember what it was like prior and there would be few of the previous power structures left able to step in an fill the power vacuum.