As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Lambdafish]

Please prove that what I have said was designed to have a negative impact on the community just because I have a different opinion?

Ok, you want to see the hostility?

My argument being faulty is debateable coming from a subjective viewpoint

(which can be reworded to My argument isn't faulty because I don't think it is)

To even suggest theres an issue with healer dps is often put put down and sometimes aggressively or bitchily just proves how hostile the community is towards those that cant or dont do it.

Tbh even if you explain yourself its still taken as refusal or too lazy to learn or the best one is 'why should a group carry you' or 'put up with you' ' your slowing us down' ' your hurting the group' go learn elsewhere dps or gtfo. You make it sound like peoples's attitudes are so reasonable towards those that try.

(Scroll down to see the attitudes towards those who try and have a good attitude)

So you automatically assume that I suck? (Note: in itself a baseless assumption, this wasn't ever stated) an How is that helping? When I already know how to dps and know the 'benefits' but I think to me the expection itself is a problem and please stop being personal you dont know me, or how I play

(this was in response to attitude shown on the forums)

Im sorry you will be immediately 'jumped on ' for it. Sadly all you will get is ' advice' on how you should 'improve yourself'

I think she may not respond because she doesnt have a justifiable answer.

When have I ever seen a post that favours my views from you?

I guess allowances are not made often for people that learn in different ways

(Scroll down to see said allowances)

If I say here that its assholes I will get accused of blaming it on everything else.

Omg the insults just keep pouring out dont they victim, crazy, paranoid, liar, now strange stalker what next lol? I think its you that has issues dont project your messed up stuff onto me

(Overblown, exaggeration of attacks that were not malicious)

And the posts that we have been making?

In response to someone with a positive attitude:

Wow I think you are doing absolutely amazing. Your attitude is so great too I wouldn't even mind if you were only managed to do 10 DPS in a whole run.

Not every "non-DPS" healer is like that, and we can unanimously agree that healers who idle are terrible. It is this kind of hostility and accusation that forms these threads, and I'd rather avoid attacking people and scaring off healers who are potentially not skilled enough, but are open to improvement.

Well everyone here acknowledges that other players have aptitude and some don't

At the risk of stretching this out; have a look over my logs, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a crummy DPS when it comes to progression content but yet I do absolutely fine.

In response to a healer who wasn't confident (those who you are championing to defend):

I think you might be a bit overly careful here. I've done some Savage and Extreme learning parties lately and with DF or PF pugs they tend to be messy enough that healers are busy just healing at start, and that's fine

No, the "lazy healer" comments have been directed to the healers who refuse to be helpful to their party when they could all along. The "lol no I won't DPS because I'm a healer, I'll just /moogledance while I watch you work for our group goals instead" crowd. And this has been explained again and again in this thread.

No one is going to (or at least they definitely shouldn't) give you a hard time on this, especially since you're talking about doing dungeons and not trying to join a Savage static.

To sum up the argument:

no one has ever advocated nor blamed your lack of DPS relative to this supposed statics deficiency. That is your assumption.

Tbh I think 90% of players wont even realise that if it's outside of EX Primal or Savage Alex, so you shouldn't worry too much about it.
That isn't even the problem at all, at least not for most people. It is absolutely fine to play it safe and careful if you are not familiar with the situation.

Like Lambdafish said before: It's the attitude that counts!

To conclude: you have a lot of predetermined assumptions about the community and that comes across negatively here, the fact that your arguement doesn't correlate with the evidence shows this assumption. And the hostility comes when people point out that this assumption makes your point objectively incorrect.

Theres a tonne more but I have already wasted too much time on this post that will only be met with "Stop insulting me".

Anyway, enough lowering myself to the negativity for me, anyone want to positively talk about healing?

[Feyona]

In response to a healer who wasn't confident (those who you are championing to defend):





To sum up the argument:






To conclude: you have a lot of predetermined assumptions about the community and that comes across negatively here, the fact that your arguement doesn't correlate with the evidence shows this assumption. And the hostility comes when people point out that this assumption makes your point objectively incorrect.

Theres a tonne more but I have already wasted too much time on this post that will only be met with "Stop insulting me".

Anyway, enough lowering myself to the negativity for me, anyone want to positively talk about healing?

Why havent you put the posts in that I was responding to? Isnt this a little one sided? And most of those responses were factual rather than hostile maybe its you that imagines attacks maybe?

[Lambdafish]

Why havent you put the posts in that I was responding to? Isnt this a little one sided? And most of those responses were factual rather than hostile maybe its you that imagines attacks maybe?

Because any hostility towards you has been in response to the quotes from you, you commented that you were "crazy" and "victimising" because you were hostile, unfair, and downright ignorant of your peers. And any "factual response" that you have given is in in the context of your own argument. All I actually know about your argument is that it is something to do with "unfair treatment"? Which is a topic that was discussed at length at your request and what I personally got from that was abuse from you about how I attacked you. I tried to help, I even defended you multiple times against my better judgement, and you threw that back at me, like you have multiple people, because anyone touching or amending your argument is an attack on you personally in your opinion.

[AceFoxfire]

Hey I know Fey personally and she a dam great healer we have done a9s, a10s and a11s together as healers. I never had to come out of cleric to heal at all only if someone dies by mistake and heal them back up. You say that Fey hostility yet you pick all her comments and change the context of them and no one else can see the replies unless they want go through hundreds of pages to see them to what was said to them. Fey praise people that dps and heal but if she not comfortable doing it up to her and that don't make no more a team player in groups then anyone specially if she main healer. its a joke to call fey hostility because she one of the most nice people that will help in anything no matter what it is. Plus how can you say much about healing when you only have a sch and from what it seems and you main all tank class I'm guesting when it comes to alexander savage you only have a tanking outlook.

[AceFoxfire]

Fey has got a lot old post of hostility just for showing her opinion about not want to dps if that person just was to heal only. Plus saying your lowering "yourself" I think anyone would take that as personal attack on themselves from the way you context that.

[Shurrikhan]

Anyway, enough lowering myself to the negativity for me, anyone want to positively talk about healing?

I enjoy the supportive aspect of healing; I'd just like to see more to it than the damage and healing dealt by itself. That said, I don't want to be cycling through buff maintenance either, as I've seen suggested as an alternative for filler time. Any ideas?

[Feyona]

Because any hostility towards you has been in response to the quotes from you, you got called "crazy" and "victimising" because you were hostile, unfair, and downright ignorant of your peers. And any "factual response" that you have given is in in the context of your own argument. All I actually know about your argument is that it is something to do with "unfair treatment"?

You actually think that insulting someone personally is constructive and helpful and you are actually supporting it beggars belief. And when you say 'peers' it comes across like 'betters' somehow because the only people you like the posts you like are those that suggest they will do as they are told and dps as healer and take your advice which is so off the mark if you dont heal yourself much how can you mentor them in savage?

[Taika]

You actually think that insulting someone personally is constructive and helpful and you are actually supporting it beggars belief.

Please show some concrete examples (quotes within context) these "insults" directed towards you in this thread? From what I've seen, and I've been following this thread quite a lot, most of the hostility has come from a single person, and that is you.

And when you say 'peers' it comes across like 'betters' somehow because the only people you like the posts you like are those that suggest they will do as they are told and dps as healer

Here you go with the asumptions again. It would be much more constructive if you would try to read what people actually write instead of making assumptions that don't have anything to do with the words in the posts.

and take your advice which is so off the mark if you dont heal yourself much how can you mentor them in savage?

I'm main healer (have been since 1.0, WHM and SCH), have cleared A12S before echo, and can support their advice. But I don't think you should require a person to have certain experience or skill level to be allowed to take part in discussion. Of course if advice is given, it's often good to take a look at the background of a person who is giving it.

Edit:

It was removed I think cant see it Im afraid. But lamdafish has said why I was called it so theres your evidence

Since it's been made clear no posts haven't been moderated, and you have nothing to show, it is quite clear there aren't and haven't been any messages insulting you.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

where have I said that every post is an attack on me? if someone says Im lazy if I dont dps or says stuff like ' I will kick non dpsing healer' or says things like ' I dont attempt to dps' then I have corrected them. Or especially calls me a liar then its far from 'imagined' I think that the healing community wouldnt plummet at all just like othe games where you only heal, people like that role. Im not the only healer that feels this way and you dps would probably dps but everyone that likes healing would stay healing. How come everything would have to be adjusted when it was not scaled into it in the first place? And have to add here that I was trying to make a point that optimal performnce works both ways and trying to illustrate that using my static as an example not saying the communty here blamed my lack of dps but the group did. And the idea that sch has to dps was put there by the community in the first place or I wouldnt have been kicked or potentially excluded. I will also add here that many dps have healing classes as well, and if a group or an fc wanted or needed a healer for a particular clear, even if the person didnt like just healing would swap over to help the group. No one really has to do one role or the other, but I just see a problem with healers expected to do both at once for the reasons above

Lambdafish already post a compilation. Your posts frequently devolve into playing the victim or twisting the narrative to better suit your stance. Case in point, you cite things going "both ways" yet none of us have disagreed with the assertion. I and others have repeatedly acknowledge a static requiring healer DPS to mask their own poor performance is simply a bad group. People only started taking issue when you continuously defended only healing regardless of circumstance. We really cannot break this down further but I shall try. Healers should DPS, provided they have ample opportunity to do so. Adjustments needs be made dependent on group performance, experience and knowledge of the fight. Bear in mind, some groups will be less impatient than others and that is not necessarily a slight against them. It can be frustrating to watch people fail mechanics you already know. Nevertheless, if you come across a group who doesn't leave up to their lofty goals, is toxic or the dynamic just doesn't fit. Look elsewhere. If you're kicked, evaluate why and see if there is anything you could change when applying for another static. Sometimes, people are just jerks though.

Putting all that aside, no other game has the absurdly high healing potency XIV does. WoW requires dedicated healing lest the target play die from even simple attacks. Comparatively, XIV asks the White Mage only toss a single Cure II and a constantly refreshed Regen to top the tank off. Without DPSing, you will literally stand around doing nothing even in Savage. There simply isn't enough outgoing damage to warrant the power healers exhibit. This DPS meta exists for that reason. If the devs simply removed Cleric with no further adjustment, they've essentially told healers "do nothing for 50-80% of content". It isn't hard to see why many would be put off playing the role or quit the game entirely. Yoshi even acknowledged this very fact despite his dislike of Cleric.

[Kitfox]

I enjoy the supportive aspect of healing; I'd just like to see more to it than the damage and healing dealt by itself. That said, I don't want to be cycling through buff maintenance either, as I've seen suggested as an alternative for filler time. Any ideas?

Generally speaking, the only things we can do in the game are: dealing damage, healing damage, buffing self and allies, debuffing enemies. Offensive buffs and debuffs are probably the most lacking element in the healer tool kits, AST being the only one with multiple of them.