Do Something About Duty Finder Already

[Aquaslash]

and what would you propose? the "git gud" logic? What if I don't want to?

Then play alone. If you come into any of my groups and don't meet the basic standards for your job, you WILL get blacklisted.

It's my sub, I'll play how I want, and I don't want to play with lazy players

[AmeliaVerves]

I pay sub, I play how I want.

This! It's so weird to even bring that as an argument at all, because everyone playing this game can say this.

"I play super hardcore and don't want to be in a group with less skilled people! I want my dungeons to take 5 minutes!"
- This person pays sub and is right with the argument?

"I play like I want and don't care about dungeons taking >30 minutes!"
- This person also pays sub and is right with the argument?

I think both are wrong. We all need to compromise with others, but it needs to happen from both sides!
Speedrunners should be patient with less skilled players and slow-pace Players should put some effort to not waste other peoples time on purpose!

[ErryK]

*X-Files music*

[Ceasaria]

At this point, SE should just reinforce the rules of his game.
Sure we have many of them but there are easily not respected by people who prefer to play how they want (they really are poison for this game).
In a board game, if you don't follow the rules, you can't play the game it's designed for.
As suggest the author of this thread, many things should be implement :
- to help people to understand how to play properly this game with tips, training forced, etc.
- to punish people who think they have the right to not respect the rules, the game and their players.

[ManuelBravo]

.I don't like making comparisons to XI..but the BEST thing imo about that game was the "Genkai" fight...where you HAD to defeat a mirror job of yours 1 v 1 or else you cannot level and thus do endgame content...And it was hard for certain jobs...it forced you to really learn your job properly and thus...pugging at max level was the best experience i've had compared to all MMOs i've ever played...

As per your FFXI experience I'm very familiar with it. Genkai was nice but only needed to be done once. Should of been with EVERY class. I was one of the few players who had multiple Relics and Myths So I understand your frustration. However the whole purpose of FFXIV was to be more player friendly.Yes shaving to fight a mirror fight is something that would be nice as Level cap breaker for that particular class. However, you seem to lack the basic concept that that not all players are hardcore or endgame. To be fair there are a lot of players who lack skill, yet are willing to learn and I would take them over a person who ignores team work just because they THINK they are above others. If your having a hard time finding competent people then form an FC, ask your FC, make friends and stop complaining about the play styles of others. Why should developers make the game harder when people have been asking to make it easier? Sorry I rather pay staff for new content than fix something that isn't broken. They can't help the fact that are extreme casual players out there. If anything you might consider transferring to a more hardcore base server. Common Sense ; if your paying play the way you want to. Here is a simple enough example, turn the tables, haven't you ever been placed in a position where you haven't cleared something and constantly fail with DF? and most of the PF state NO BONUS? You know you can do it if they give you a chance. What if their expectations are far different then yours and they kick you? YOU THINK it's there problem. The point is, if you still haven't caught on, is that everyone has a different play style. IF you depend on DF deal with the cards your dealt. IF you build your own party set expectations. IF this game isn't to your standards MOVE ON.

[Owl_Hawk]

Also..Reading many talking about Halls of Novice..I know someone who played this game who has never played an MMO...skipped Halls of Novice but not on purpose...didnt know it existed..They just left the city and forgot all about the class quests...got to 50 without getting their Job also...msg me "heyy! i reached 50!" i look at them..where is your job? umm what? what is that? where do i go?" this all can be avoided with better guiding via the game system itself...The Smith Guy is just standing there near the Innkeeper like...what a bad position...it should be part of DF UI on the first page where roulletes are. Or even better..just remove the Class system already which at first they said they might do then said ehhh might be too hard to do because of classes such as Arcanist splitting up into SMN and SCH...OK if it's too hard then at least update the DF to say "Go Here" and shows a map with location of where to get Job Quests after Haukke Manor if they want to continue dungeons OR/AND...making the MSQ unavailable after 30 until they get it...

And I just decided to do all the Halls of Novice as DPS before posting this and here are the problems with it:

1. YOU need to go find The Smith...Instead of it being something in the front page of a DF and a requirement before anyone joins for groups.
2. It is only lvl 15....all classes drastically change after that especially around 30, 50 and 60.
3. I actually pulled aggro from the NPC tank as Monk in the last boss of the last challenge...which shows even the Bots don't know how to play...

Overall what I am suggesting in this thread is SIMILAR to Smith but more TAILORED to EACH Job...not just in general and is MANDATORY...lvl 15 most classes don't have aoes...some get aoes in the 20s..some in the 30s, some if memory serves right..DRG is 40+...so one can't have the same tests for the same jobs..Not to mention the fact that the game drastically changes after 15 and roles spread out a bit...BLM and SMN for example are casters but play different..NIN/MNK/DRG are Melee but play different..Ninjustsu for example is not the same as using Jumps as DRG let's say...tanks are a bit similar overall to be honest except in 50+ when they get their strongest dmg reduction abilities...healers also a bit similar with the exception of say....SCH..seen SCHs not use Adlo because "Less Potency"...and yes I agree they should READ what the ability does..but if a trial like Smith MAKES them learn rotation of Adlo > Physick > Adlo Physick for a tank under alot of pressure..it will help the player learn AND again, saves strangers in a party from dealing with this.

This system is also good for returning players..let's say someone hasnt played for 2 months comes back to their lvl 60...just does these tests before going into a dungeon..will be a great refresher for them and gives them the confidence to practice in a group setting without real people...I know there are Dummies for that but many don't feel like it or want to or even if they do...forgot the arsenal of abilities under their disposal "Oh yea...forgot I had Shadowflare" "Oh yeaaa..forgot about Assize" etc..and then the burden is on the players who join up with this person...it really should be mandatory and it doesnt have to be so long and difficult...just a test to ensure the player is playing how that job should be played.

But the main thing that caused me to start this thread is seeing classes instead of Jobs at a savage fight..this is something Devs can easily sort out similar to locking out gatherers and crafters from group battle content.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

- to punish people who think they have the right to not respect the rules, the games and their players.

Never going to happen outside of booting someone from the party. Players cannot go out of the "rules" unless they are hacking. If they aren't good enough together with the group, then you fail, that is the detrimental aspect that will hold them back.

Also, one thing people forget is that SE is catering to everyone. Now imagine that for a second, appealing to everyone. They aren't going to make the most money appealing to only the people who play "great", they make profit of appealing to all demographics of players and it's by design. A lot of people take inefficient players as a lack of respect, but I find that to be someone taking themselves or this game a little too seriously. People don't always start out good and having someone yell at them in the run, or passive aggressively trying to help them won't make them any better.

You honestly cannot control if someone gets better or not, all you can do is guide and wish for the best.

[Owl_Hawk]

*X-Files music*

lol l did say I don't usually use forums so whatever I have put since 2.0 launched is still there xD But good eye will sort it out now ^^

[Aquaslash]

This whole catering to bads has larger effects though.

Do you know what my favorite trial in the game is? Steps of Faith. Everything that led up to that battle as well as everything about that battle was one of the most enjoyable experiences I've ever had in this game. I'd like to have more amazing fights like that, but the amount of bad players that up and DEMANDED to be able to clear without knowing what they hell they were doing means I'll never see another trial like that again.

Even the raids are affected. The best summon in the franchise has a complete shitshow of a raid to his name and it's all thanks to people who DEMANDED to clear the first one without knowing what the hell they were doing.

Where does it end? Are we gonna just breathe funny at the new primal and he shits out top tier gear?

[Owl_Hawk]

This whole catering to bads has larger effects though.

I don't see it as catering to "Bads" but wanting more education so people become "Decent" at their Jobs will go a long way...If more people know the basics of their jobs and how to use abilities better together in later levels and not just at lvl 15..then all that is left is mechanics which players can discuss and guides can be watched...But just leaving players to figure out what that job is supposed to be doing at Endgame...something that shouldve been learned 30 levels ago at the expense of other players hurts THOSE players experience alot of times...but a system of mandatory job trials every 10 levels similar to The Smith but SCALES every 10 levels with the same ilvl to ensure gear isnt boosting and is actually in the front Page of DF that locks everything else out until this is completed...AND must be completed and for returning players who have gone for say, 2+ months (at least redo the last test they did to ensure they are refreshed) will help out Duty Finder parties out MUCH more..and make the players who just don't know what to do much better.

Anyone who played early FFXI knows one of the best PUG experiences endgame is in that game with other players because those players HAD to fight a mirror match before moving up...and it was difficult for many jobs...It did not discourage me when I failed a few times on my RDM...rather It made me REALLY study my class...discuss with other RDMs and so on which lead to me better using my job in the end. And this is the sort of system I am proposing..minus the need to buy expensive items or wait for 2 hour abilities to be up