Revelations from Patch 3.56

[Berethos]

I thought of another theory that could have sparked the identity of the primal.

According to comments elsewhere, this may be another localization quirk causing confusion - the other languages apparently don't reference Rhalgr at all.

I think the idea behind the whole thing is that it's a manifestation of anger and vengeance, a nameless being stronger than even Bahamut...but the specific call out of Rhalgr in the English client muddies that interpretation.

Personally, I think that because the actual summoning didn't begin in earnest (afaik) until the moment Ilberd cast himself to his death that his desire had the strongest pull on what would be summoned, and he certainly didn't seem the type to be calling out to any version of Rhalgr, and that the deaths of the others served as a more general catalyst of aether - that some called out to a specific belief was less important than there being a surplus of aether generated by violent deaths.

[Belhi]

I still find it a stretch that the primal is sustained by the a doman myth. If that was the case Shinryu would be easy to deal with. We just would need to stop the Doman's thinking its Shinryu. After all, literally its only connection is a resemblance and honestly I could easily have seen them mistaking Midgardsormr or even Bahamut for Shinryu.

I am also not sure if I would expect Shinryu to be stronger, at least not yet. Bahamut had a long time acting as a conduit to get juiced up and damage wise both are calamity scale. Omega did apparently take down Bahamut but Bahamut had been weakened by a war of attrition at that point, starving him of sources of Aether, while using the voidsent possessed corpses of his own people against him.

[Chewy2nd]

I was under the impression that it was a random unnamed Primal that was summoned, that the Domans dubbed 'Shinryu' after legends from their home country.

[Berethos]

I am also not sure if I would expect Shinryu to be stronger, at least not yet.

Nidhogg's Eyes are kind of the unknown here - tough to say how much they augmented what was already a fairly powerful summoning ritual (since we know that sacrificing a life as part of the ritual leads to more powerful primals).

I was under the impression that it was a random unnamed Primal that was summoned, that the Domans dubbed 'Shinryu' after legends from their home country.

There's a good reason you're under that impression - that's exactly what happened. This Primal, whatever the desires/beliefs held by those involved in creating it, came first...and then it got the name Shinryu.

[Cilia]

A couple points to be made:

In regards to the war, while the aggressor is usually the "bad guy," in this case it's a bit more complex. Ilberd has forced our hand by deceiving the Empire into believing Eorzea launched an offense against the Wall, which even without the whole Shinryu business would have provoked retaliation from the Empire. The Imperials have shown time and again that their idea of diplomacy is either "blow it to kingdom come with magitek" or "issue an ultimatum demanding surrender on our terms," so aside from submitting to Imperial rule there's no way to avoid this war. (And even that might not be enough to avoid any and all causalties, knowing the Imperials.) Strategically speaking, the Alliance is launching a preemptive counter-offense because we know the Imperials are going to come in guns blazing. Ilberd may be gone unless his consciousness is still in Shinryu somewhere... but he got his war, even without the dragon.

The primal summoned by Ilberd is... technically sustained by the wishes and prayers of the dead Masks, has no legend or myth to shape it, and no name. However... the wish was for a destructive force akin to Bahamut, giving it a draconic appearance, and the name "Shinryu" comes from what some of the Doman refugees were reminded of. So, everyone is just gonna call it Shinryu for ease's sake instead of "that draconic primal Ilberd summoned." (I'm inclined to believe Shinryu was even more powerful than Bahamut, given Omega could only fight the former to a standstill while it defeated and sealed the latter, but I digress.)

The Warrior of Light and Scions' main goal in Ishgard was to end the Dragonsong War with as few casualties as possible. We never sought to force political or societal reforms on the nation - that just happened as a matter of course, given the social structure of the nation was largely built on the same lie that sustained the war. Yes we fought against those trying to keep the old status quo, but let it not be forgot that we did so defensively after they tried to assassinate the acting head of state, committed large-scale arson, seized control of the seat of government, held numerous hostages, and after he was cornered the ringleader threw one such hostage (a child, at that) from the top of the Vault.

In all cases, when you have the power we do, the power to save people... and you don't, then they die because of you; and if you must kill the guilty to save the innocent, then kill. War is a terrible thing, and would that we could stop Ilberd from sparking it, I would gladly do so. But what's done is done, and now we have to deal with the consequences of that cowardly madman's actions. How strange Hydaelyn is, and how cruel.

[Kallera]

Well, a guilt free extermination war? How convinient, and again, lacking the gravitas of actual warfare since we know there is but one outcome for the alliance. By choosing to take the wall, Eorzea has committed to see Shinryu's work and whatever comes by plunging the world into this. You do not fight something like this on the cheap and blameless.

It's going to be hard selling Ilberd as a coward now that we are going to be living the lie. I suppose so long as Shinryu is pointed at the empire we can just watch?

[cbwriter]

Of course the possibility comes up that "Shinryu" attacks Doma in it's rage and the Domans summon the 'real' Shinryu to counter. Might be an interesting twist, but...eh...probably not. *shrug*

[Zohar_Lahar]

You'll notice Shinryu's physical appearance is rather abstract compared to to the other Great Wyrms. It's like a vague caricature of Bahamut with elements of Nidhogg, and otherwise is just a crystalline dragon. In practical terms though, Shinryu is essentially Ilberd's boundless rage and bottomless despair made manifest.

[Alleo]

I am not really sold on this ending of HW..really it did not make me feel like I want to see what comes next. The fight of Omega against the dragon primal was kinda cool and I loved the grin my WoL did in the fight against the Garleans but that was everything positive for me.

I dont really understand why the Yda/Lyse thing was necessary? We 2.0 (but it seems also the 1.0) players never met the real Yda anyway so its just like she made a name change..they could have just left her as Yda and told us that she had a sister called Lyse that wanted to be part of the scions (and had the brains to do so too) but never got there because she died before that..and that was the reason why Yda joined the scions..Papalymo could have seen something in her and just gave her the fake tattoos and everything else could stay the same..maybe in SB we could have the twist of Lyse still being alive..

In the end none of the characters really cared about the reveal and I also did not feel anything..maybe it was just done to give Lyse a different character development in SB which would have been strange with Yda..but you know..someone beloved dying can change the happiest person in the world..*shakes head* well whats done is done..I just dont really care that much for her anyway so whatever.

About the rest of the story: It would have been nice to see more of a reaction with Nero telling everyone that they just cant toss us at everything. Maybe the leaders showing some kind of remorse or the twins talking about it afterwards. But I do have to say that I kinda enjoyed the parts with Nero. I find him an interesting character and I like his banter with Cid.

The new Roe man (or not Roe man) does not feel interesting. I only found his entrance funny, and also did not found him to be much of a loud man maybe because he does not scream that much in German? (Did not listen to the english voice, so I have no idea if he is louder) I also kinda said to myself that I will not warm up to any character again after Haurchefants death..That one still hurts like it happened just an hour ago and I just feel like the Roe is another character that will be used as a sacrifice later..you know, since the devs seems to love giving us characters that we really like just to make it hit harder with their death..

I also did not really get the reason why we should leave for Doma? I mean we just found out that Eorzea will go to war with the Garlearn over Ala Mhigo and we will surely help Lyse with her rebellion. Why would we leave her behind for Doma? Couldnt they at least give us a hint why Yugiri should suddenly get back to her homeland? I mean the Roe did not know about airships so if we do not fly over there with Cid`s ship, we will have to travel there by sea..which will take months..I would never really leave all those people in Eorzea behind at such a critical point..I mean it could be that this happens with a reason and your departure to Doma will mean that Eorzea will lose..but this would just feel like another forced dumb decision just for the sake of the plot. So I really hope that they will give us an acceptable good reason to leave for an unknown county at the start of SB...

I am sorry that I wrote so much negative points. Its just that after Haurchefants death I did not feel that much for the story anymore. And it has gotten to a low point with this patch. I just feel like not caring for a lot of characters and the only ones that I still really like very much are the twins and Tataru..I like Nero and Cid too but not in the way that it would hit me hard if they would die..really all other than the three could die and the only reason I would really feel sad for a short time would be the music that would go along side the scene making it feel really sad..I mean even the devs seems to not want the characters to truly cry for their fallen comrades..why are the character not allowed to cry? Why should we all just accept the death of a good friend/mentor and try to go on without at least some time to cry for them? I know that everyone copes different with such a thing but a cutscene where we see Lyse standing somewhere alone, falling down on her knees, shoulders shaking would really hit me hard because I would at least get the feeling that this was hard for the ingame characters. Yet all people did is making some frowny faces and some even barely reacted at all..

[Tracewood]

Some missing links from the ending. Where was Thancred and the Ascians in all this? You'd think at least Elidibus would of wanted to see the conclusion of his transaction with the Griffin.