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  1. #1
    Player Vhailor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    761
    Character
    Deionarra Eidolon
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Edit: Keep hearing alot of "There is not much that can be done about bad players":
    There is something that can be done, but I'd argue nothing you've listed would do the trick, and SE has clearly decided not to pursue the only course that would usher in significant improvement: challenging players early and often.

    I don't care how many tooltips are available, how obvious the quests are (they're already really freakin' obvious), or how well SE simulates real dungeon conditions. If players aren't faced with content that consistently challenges them to improve their skills, if they aren't faced with the shame of wiping a group of their fellow players when they screw up, they aren't going to learn. Experience is the ONLY long-term teacher that will solve this problem (and even then, it's not perfect; FFXI was brutally hard, and you still got incompetent players at level cap, just not as many). Sure, SE can force the Gladiator to become a Paladin, but bad is bad. They'll just suck less obviously.

    So, given that SE has shown absolutely no desire to introduce real challenge into the typical dungeon, that's the ballgame. FFXIV is going to always be riddled with bad players, because bad players aren't punished. Their progress isn't impeded, their groups can usually survive without them, and the party members they encounter who would otherwise black list them for incompetence aren't even on the same damned server most of the time. No consequences, no learning.
    (8)

  2. #2
    Player
    Gemina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dravania
    Posts
    5,778
    Character
    Gemina Lunarian
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhailor View Post
    There is something that can be done, but I'd argue nothing you've listed would do the trick, and SE has clearly decided not to pursue the only course that would usher in significant improvement: challenging players early and often...

    ... So, given that SE has shown absolutely no desire to introduce real challenge into the typical dungeon, that's the ballgame. FFXIV is going to always be riddled with bad players, because bad players aren't punished. Their progress isn't impeded, their groups can usually survive without them, and the party members they encounter who would otherwise black list them for incompetence aren't even on the same damned server most of the time. No consequences, no learning.
    I have to disagree to a certain extent. I understand that relevant endgame content is where the true challenge lies, but from my experience, optional dungeons like Cutter's Cry and Aurum Vale ramp up the difficulty significantly. And even MSQ instances such as Keepers of the Lake, The Navel HM, Ravana HM, The Aery, and The Vault are nothing to scoff at, especially when running them your first time. They don't play around and serve to make a player better, and most will claim that they became better players after learning these instances because they are indeed punished for failing/ignoring mechanics.

    I will still agree with the lack of consequences though. I don't like it in general when mechanics can be ignored, and when content has to be nerfed, especially when it is intended to be difficult. These things without question won't teach a player anything. Since you played XI, you should be aware of SE's mistake of making content too difficult. They lost a lot of subs with the genkai quests (particularly raising the caps of levels 50 and 70), and Absolute Virtue pre-nerfs literally sent players to the hospital.

    As Yoshi stated iirc, "Be careful what you wish for."
    (2)