Why Can't WHM Have An Enmity Lowering Stance?

[Velcan]

They had to add enmity reduction to AST because it was having so many problems compared to how easy reduction is on WHM with shroud. SCH doesn't have the issue since half their enmity is split to the fairy.

I am not being aggressive with this I just want to know how AST had trouble with enmity. To my knowledge they always had Luminiferous Aether which is better than Shroud in the first half of a fight. What was the problem with AST heals that made them give so much aggro?

Pls someone respond I actually want the answer.

[Daranion]

How are people saying this is fair? A WHM has no way of maximizing their DPS output without hampering the tanks DPS. Neither of the other healers have this. Both AST and SCH are capable of pushing out some decent personal DPS since their aggro kits are hean and shoulders above the other two at the start. Tank wanting to pull in DPS stance using a Ninja shadwalker? Sure, easy to do with an AST or a SCH. A AST is gonna provide a ton of DPS due to card boosts and a SCH broiling after its opener is also gonna not endanger themselves at all while doing damage. Now a WHM? When they go ham after keeping the party sustained, I have to stop near the end of fight or flight. How is this fair? The healer thats burst honestly isn't that much higher than the output of an AST card cannot play to their maximized potential. Either they stop themselves, or I have to hold back. No other class has this, and I play the best class for maintaining constant aggro. It's plain not fair.

Also, who said ASTs needed a reduction stance? Before the buffs they were shittier WHMs and still had Luminiferous Aether. I also want to know what they did that needed such DRASTIC aggro reduction tools, since mathematically it didn't work or AST players just sucked.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

SE could just lower WHM's dps power then enmity problem is solved :P

[Velcan]

SE could just lower WHM's dps power then enmity problem is solved :P

Trueeee but they already bring the lowest PARTY DPS to the table. This would just make WHM even rarer in raid content.

[Tint]

I am not being aggressive with this I just want to know how AST had trouble with enmity. To my knowledge they always had Luminiferous Aether which is better than Shroud in the first half of a fight. What was the problem with AST heals that made them give so much aggro?

Pls someone respond I actually want the answer.

okay, i'll try my best xD

Luminifeous Aether reduces the enmity you generate for 24 seconds by half and has a 120 seconds cooldown.
Shroud of Saints reduces your current enmity by half and has also a 120 seconds cooldown.

for better comparsion i just assume that every GCD 100 enmity is generatet (the potencys of WHM and AST, at least for healing, are mostly the same anyway).

120 seconds are 48 GCDs.
24 seconds are 9,6 GCDs, but lets just say 10, wich is wrong, but sounds better than 9, and it's a bonus for the AST for our comparsion ^^
sooo...

a 10 min fight?

AST aggro:
10 casts with lumi aether for 50 enmity are 500 enmity, another 38 casts for 100 enmity are 3800 enmity, together 4300 enmity in 2 mins.
after the 2 mins lumi aether is back from cd and you wll generate another 4300 enmity in the next 2 mins. that's 8600 enmity after 4 mins, 12900 after 6 mins, 17200 enmity after 8 mins and 21500 enmity at the end of the fight.

WHM aggro:
48 casts for 100 enmity are 4800 enmity after 2 mins. reduced by half 2400 enmity.
another 48 casts in the next 2 mins are again 4800 enmity, 2400 + 4800 are 7200, reduced by half 3600 enmity after 4 mins, 4200 after 6 mins, 4500 after 8 mins and 4650 enmity at the end of the fight.

yes, WHM generates more enmity than AST, so the numbers are not absolute correct, but the difference is not that big and i just wanted to compare the 2 skills.

WHM spikes higher with 4800, but if you use shroud after 1 min instead of 2, you get 60/2,5=24x100=2400/2=1200 enmity after 1 min (AST is at 1900 after 1 min), another 2400 enmity in the next minute, together 3600 enmity after 2 mins. AST stays at 4300 enmity...

Shroud of Saints >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luminifeous Aether
and that's why AST needs an enmity lowering stance and WHM don't

[Daranion]

That's fascinating and all Tint, but the problem lies all in the first minute or two of the fight. Which is where the crux of the problem lies. And shroud being better at the end is irrelevant when aggro is flying out the ass at the start. NOONE should have problems with aggro near the point. But the opening when WHMs can pull off a 3k DPS opener? Nah man, Shroud is fucked for that.

[Accelerating]

What content are you even talking about? In normal / expert dungeons you barely need any healing, so your aggro will be much lower than the DPS'. If you're having aggro issues in savage raids then you're probably doing something wrong.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

SE could just lower WHM's dps power then enmity problem is solved :P

Are you trying to kill WHM?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

AST got the enmity lowering stance later, because AST had much more trouble with enmity than WHM ever had...

It's funny because, the reason why they drew so much enmity in the first place was because of healing spam due to lower potency heals. Yet after they buffed their enmity control, they buffed their healing potency so the extra healing which made them aggro monsters in the first place was solved....All it did was give AST massively unneeded aggro control.

Same with their MP. The buffed Luminiferous Aether was taking into account the lower potency healing, yet after their potencies were buffed, and they didn't have to heal as much, they just have massively unneeded MP restoration.

AST is a mess and SE really doesn't seem to know what to do with it.

[Gemina]

It's the tank's fault if they lose agro to a healer. Granted, WHM has respectable burst damage, but compared to casters like BLM and SMN, if a tank can't keep agro from WHM DPS, they're going to have big troubles down the road.

I wouldn't put a whole lot of thought into it. If you're DPSing and keeping everyone on their feet, you are doing your job.