Why Can't WHM Have An Enmity Lowering Stance?

[bounddreamer]

[ irony ] no its not – tanks, like healers – are supposed to dps as much as they can and everybody has to adjust to their style! [ /irony ]

Any tank worth their job crystal should be able to hold enmity against any other job but another tank. Once a tank has a secure enmity lead, they can dps as much as they like. But their first priority is ALWAYS securing top aggro.

[Neela]

Any tank worth their job crystal should be able to hold enmity against any other job but another tank. Once a tank has a secure enmity lead, they can dps as much as they like. But their first priority is ALWAYS securing top aggro.

...you saw the irony-tag...? ^^'

[bounddreamer]

...you saw the irony-tag...? ^^'

Well, that's the thing. A good tank will switch to dps stance after they have that solid lead in hate, and dish out as much damage as they can. This doesn't mean everyone can do it, but a lot of duty finder tanks try to anyhow.

[winsock]

SoS is fine for this purpose IMO. Losing half of your emnity is no joke.

I would suggest monitoring the amount of overheal you are putting out and trying to reduce it, as well as ensuring you aren't taking initial aggro via HoTs and what have you.

Sometimes you just won't have the control, but tanks should be able to keep threat off you in normal circumstances. I've had some close calls pulling off of good tanks, but very rarely. These are issues like solo healing + failed mechanics causing additional raidwide dmg + vulnerability.

[Jpec07]

As a WHM I find myself taking aggro off of tanks to often. It always start of with the party saying use shroud but I use Shroud constantly to keep aggro down. It then turns into stop DPSing so much you will take aggro off of me, like what the heck I cant DPS as a WHM. The point im trying to make is why does WHM go so bad with tanks like PLD and, mostly DRK. WHY does AST and SCH have far better enmity control when WHM should be the first healer to have it considering they are the "real" healers.

Yoshi fix WHM soon I cant handle paying this class anymore which is sad cause its my favorite healer.

Chiming in as a tank. Unless a healer severely outgears me or is constantly pre-applying Regen, I almost never have enmity problems with regards to healers (especially if they're just DPSing). I can see how some tanks might, if they're trying to tank in their DPS stances, but that's just a sign of a bad tank (without the natural enmity boost of the tank stance, tanks need to work a lot harder if they want to keep aggro, and some just don't know how to do it).

I'm not sure how necessary a change like what you've suggested is, OP, but I do think Shroud's cooldown could stand to be reduced slightly. It sounds like you've just been dealing with one or more bad tanks, and that really sucks.

[Brem]

I'm playing as a drk tank, and the only time I really lose aggro is when I don't keep an eye on it, mostly in random dungeons, but then again, I can take back that aggro instantly.

I'd say it's just the people you get as tanks that are to lazy to be able to tank. It's the people that shouldn't play tank, but a dps class instead.

[SaitoHikari]

This does seem pretty busted though. I mean that the idea that the class with the...

- Highest potential for overhealing
- Has no unique shielding

Also ends up with...

- The highest MP costs
- Highest emnity generation due to all of their unique heals being regens
- The lowest MP regeneration
- Only gets an emnity dump once every 120 seconds?

How has a developer not looked at this and realized that there is something very confused going on here?

(To be fair, Scholar doesn't get any sort of emnity dump either, but at least their emnity is split between themselves and the fairy, so it's pretty much never an issue for them unless the tank is really bad.)

[enthauptet]

They had to add enmity reduction to AST because it was having so many problems compared to how easy reduction is on WHM with shroud. SCH doesn't have the issue since half their enmity is split to the fairy.

[Velcan]

The real problem here: Stop using regen/medica II before a pull. Just don't.

Trust me I never use medica 2 in a PF scenario until later in the battle, once Shroud has given me a good lead in aggro. I'm pretty sure I said something similar to this in a response earlier?

[Velcan]

WHM doesn't need an actual stance or persistent ability to lower enmity. All it needs is for shrouds to not only cut aggro but reduce its generation while it's up. It also needs to be extended to 24s.

I agree.

I had a long paragraph of the pros and cons of what you typed but screw it I messed up the reply and don't feel like retyping it.