Why are summoners so neglected?

[Yukiba]

I think it would be neat if summoner had a buff or maybe sacrifice their summon to be able to fight similarly to yuna in ff dissidia for a certain period of time and you could alternate this with the bahamut form they already have. Be able to combo different moves from different summons in a combo instead of just having the one summon out the entire time.. would be cool.

Video Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCUHu5802kU

[Stitches1974]

Your pet is still 95% of your job, and it works fine because the people at SE who didn't understand the job they created now understand it... somewhat better.

No it doesn't. When I have to cast contagion 5-6 times before it actually works. When I can't cast rouse etc..., because the pet is out of range. I should not have have to steady my pet to bring it close to me to cast rouse. If I cast rouse, the pet should immediately move in to range to cast the spell. Instead I have to mess around with the pets to get get them to do what I want them to and have to waste time on that, rather then being able to DPS the mob (s), boss, or whatever.

[Jerbob]

You can't really ignore that the combat differences between the two games is like night and day. What works in XI won't work the same way here, the amount of work SE would need to put it into it and we all know what their response has been like when it doesn't involve new jobs, so do you honestly believe deep down that they would completely rebuild an already in-game established job from the ground up just to make you and a few select others happy?

I can completely understand tweaks and minor/modest reworks, but the things some of you are asking just isn't going to happen based on SE's own response to it all and their track record in the past.

Like tell me right now, do you honestly believe such a change a dramatic shift could happen from SE in XIV?

You're right, certainly - directly importing XI's SMN into XIV would be an unmitigated disaster. As you say, the combat differences are night and day. It's more of a conceptual comparison that I'm trying to make. If I'm not making that clear then that's entirely my fault.

When people bring up a pet-focused SMN for XIV, there's always someone who turns to XI and says "Well, SMN in XI was terrible, and that was a pet-focused job, so all pet-focused jobs must be terrible". That's the kind of thinking I'm desperately trying to show as being false. SMN in XI isn't terrible any longer because the developers are actually supporting it now - the design of a pet-focused job is solid. I am probably going somewhat overboard in XI SMN's defence, but that's because I'm very attached to the job. Seeing people spread falsehoods about how awful it is makes me very frustrated, particularly when they're using these out of date references to argue against something I think could be really great.

I'm sorry if I'm giving the impression that I want SE to remove the current XIV SMN and replace it with something more to my liking. I recognise and fully support everyone that enjoys XIV's SMN as it is - it's a good job that has a well-developed aesthetic and distinct battle style. I personally don't like some of the choices that they've made (eg. the books - I just can't tolerate them), but as jobs go it's perfectly fine. The only thing I object to is the Summoner label.

IF (and I agree with you, it's a big "IF") SE decided to create a different kind of summoner, then I would be just as outraged as anyone else if they replaced the existing job that people clearly love. It'd have to be something new entirely. My personal preference is to take the existing XIV SMN and rebrand it as Arcanist from 1-60, but there are numerous other options.

Ultimately I know what I'm asking for is very unlikely to happen, but I'm trying to be optimistic. These forums are intended to be a place for discussion, and I'm expressing what my views and desires are. I don't want to give up on something I think I'd really enjoy just because it's unlikely. Judging by what a lot of other people are saying about SMN, they seem to feel similarly.

No it doesn't. When I have to cast contagion 5-6 times before it actually works. When I can't cast rouse etc...

I'm actually talking about XI's SMN. Apologies for the confusion. I completely agree that XIV's SMN needs to be far more responsive.

[Stitches1974]

I'm actually talking about XI's SMN. Apologies for the confusion. I completely agree that XIV's SMN needs to be far more responsive.

Gotcha. My apologies then, but yes, SMN pets in XIV need to be more responsive.

[Chalbee]

Considering the numbers that SMN puts out, I would say there is nothing wrong with the class functionally with the glaring exception of the unresponsive pet (mashes contagion until my fingers bleed, pet still won't cast). And, as others have pointed out, Summoners can solo in ways that no other class can; we can summon a little tank whenever we want!

Conceptually, however, they tried to mix FFX/FFXII type summoning with the more traditional summon=strong attack element from older titles. The result is a sort of confusing thing where you can summon 3 primals, "channel" one, and do absolutely jack shit with the others. This is where it needs work. But considering function>form for actually playing the game, it's not that big of a deal.

[xxvaynxx]

I think it would be neat if summoner had a buff or maybe sacrifice their summon to be able to fight similarly to yuna in ff dissidia for a certain period of time and you could alternate this with the bahamut form they already have. Be able to combo different moves from different summons in a combo instead of just having the one summon out the entire time.. would be cool.

Video Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCUHu5802kU

That would be pretty cool but sacrificing the pet for something like would have to be very powerful to make up for the pet not attacking on the side and the pet would have to return to you without having to resummon it or else smn is going to face serious mp issues.
You would also have to use it after you have used rouse, spar and enkindle since those are pet only skills and can't use them without your pet out.

[Zigabar]

I swear I must be one of the only people who plays summoner right now that likes how they have designed it as well as thinking it is an improvement to XI's summoner. Yes having lots of summons was fun. Being told to go whm or blm instead and almost never playing summoner unless I was solo wasn't.

I also like the way SMN plays at 60. But then again, I don't have this weird notion that iconic jobs must play exactly as game x or y did it. I don't mind it's individuality.

[Iromi]

Or, instead of renaming it people can accept that this is FFXIV's version of SMN. Summoners have been many things throughout the FF series. Rydia was a BLM, Yuna/Garnet/Eiko were WHMs, in XI it was a pet focused job, in XIV it's dot mage. Instead of constantly asking for a complete rework of the job (a decision which may upset more people than it pleases), or a rename, why not ask for an actual pet focused job like beastmaster or puppetmaster?

LOL Rydia was a BLM? Nonono, she was absolutely a summoner. I am not accepting anything but the fact that a PET CLASS won the player poll back when we were supporting and paying for this game and told we would get a pet class. Dot mage is NOT a pet class.

gf posting:
i think smn and sch was handled well in ff14. ya it isn't what people want, but at least it isn't "weak". please take off the rose tinted glasses and remember HOW ff11 jobs were played, not what the job entailed.

I notice you keep posting for your gf...she can get her own account if she plays, its very easy to sign up to the forums. ^^

Also...I never healed end game, what kind of Linkshell did you play with that brought Summoners as main healers? That seems really weird and not sufficient at all. I was always ALWAYS doing damage on my SMN and I enjoyed it. In EXP PT that you do..ONCE from 1-75 I healed in a party, along with buffing/debuffs which I also enjoyed. No glasses for me, I still play and enjoy FFXI SMN...

[Talraen]

When people bring up a pet-focused SMN for XIV, there's always someone who turns to XI and says "Well, SMN in XI was terrible, and that was a pet-focused job, so all pet-focused jobs must be terrible". That's the kind of thinking I'm desperately trying to show as being false.

I don't think that's what people are saying. Every time these threads come up, people point to XI's summoner as an example of how summoner could work, and people point out that it really didn't work in XI, either. And frankly, it may still not. Current-day FFXI is in no way interested in balance below max level. I don't know if the modern summoner would actually work in the context of the game as an actual MMO, rather than the solo/trust leveling fest it is now.

[enthauptet]

SMN to me is very boring to play. Most of your gameplay is watching dots and hitting aetherflow to get dreadwyrm trance. Every once in a while you tell garuda to use contagion.

Personally I think they should decide what direction they want to go because right now it is a bunch of different ideas put together. We have a pet-job, a dot job and a combo job (dreadwyrm) all combined into the same thing. For me I think they should drop the arcanist base class and go into focusing on more dreadwyrm type abilities. This would be like using spells to combo into deathflare type attacks (like mudras on ninja) which would be pretty interesting and a lot more interactive. From seeing the RDM things I think they are going to that direction to that job unfortunately so having two jobs with that system probably wouldn't work too well but we will see.