As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

I guarantee that if they shift the 20% - 80% heals to dps ratio meta that we have going on to 80 - 20 people are going to complain that content is too hard to heal. If you aren't using near 100% of your capacity now trying to optimize healing and dps what makes you think you can handle a situation where you have to optimize 100% towards healing.

Well this is quite true people do have different skill levels and not all of us are twiddling thumbs in between healing . But I would put those top end rather than majority in high end content so Im afraid it needs a balance and those top end will have their own very difficult instance. To spend weeks or months trying to clear and the rest of us think the difficulty is just right to heal how it is .

[Feyona]

I may have misjudged you, because what you are saying is actually mostly correct, and I agree with. The thing is my stance is summed up here:

My issue is not with people not DPSing, my issue is with people who refuse to DPS on principle, and won't even acknowledge it as something that is part of their toolkit.

This is true up to the bit where you say 'play their jobs properly' as it assumes healers were intended to dps and I dont think this is the case. Healer roles are just being optimized by those with high skill level or have very good groups to play in, the group set up should not be ignored when mentioning space to dps. It isnt always skill level thats a factor in allowing for optimal play.

[Judge_Xero]

There is nothing you can outright compare to healer DPS in this game.

Tank Stances are very similar to Clerics other than the stat swap even in practice. (sacrificing your primary role for DPS)

- Don't need the extra enmity
- Don't need the extra mitigation

VS

- Don't need the extra mitigation
- Don't need additional heals

DPS stance (which also unlocks additional skills which is similar to the stat swap on healers)

Not only that but it is similar in MT/OT in that the OT doesn't sit in tank stance and they swap back and forth either for mechanics or whatever is ideal. Similar to how healers swap between dps and healing depending on the situation. (I say MT/MH in the idea of whoever is primarily tanking/healing for any given moment as the whole idea of M/O is pretty much gone now).

How do healers feel about a tank sitting in tank stance while not tanking?

Does a MT researching their CD's to mitigate enough damage and generate enough Enmity while in DPS stance compare to a Main Healer timing the use of their CD's to open DPS windows?
Does an OT using their DPS stance while not tanking compare to an OH swapping to Clerics when no extra healing/shielding is required?

Should tanks even have to use their DPS stances in general? DPS is not a primary function of their class similar to healers.

[Feyona]

Having standards is not bullying, you have no middle ground. You just think you can impose your way of thinking onto entire party and they are not allowed to do anything or say anything about it without them being considered bullies? How ironic.

I have seen posts stating healers being harrassed to dps and have experienced this ostrasization myself, and it continues covertly. It Is bullying people to do it in circumstances they feel uncomfortable. I may not like dps that doesnt mean I dont try but its something that could drive people off the game. And to be honest Ive found things to be the other way round you are the one forcing your views on other people because you think its easy and you are expecting all healers to think do and say how you do things

[Feyona]

Tank Stances are very similar to Clerics other than the stat swap even in practice. (sacrificing your primary role for DPS)

- Don't need the extra enmity
- Don't need the extra mitigation

VS

- Don't need the extra mitigation
- Don't need additional heals


Should tanks even have to use their DPS stances in general? DPS is not a primary function of their class similar to healers.

Yes and theres always a shortage of good tanks, its not an easy role it carries alot of pressure to do correctly as you must know. The game just doesnt need to have extreme pressure put on people, as content is clearable without it.

[Lambdafish]

This is true up to the bit where you say 'play their jobs properly' as it assumes healers were intended to dps and I dont think this is the case. Healer roles are just being optimized by those with high skill level or have very good groups to play in, the group set up should not be ignored when mentioning space to dps. It isnt always skill level thats a factor in allowing for optimal play.

Healers ARE intended to DPS when they don't have to heal. Fights are tuned low in this game which gives lots of gaps in which Healers hit their heal ceiling, I say this especially in 3.55b, in which people are so overgeared that your healing becomes less and less relevant. You seem to look at two extremes, you are under the impression that by saying that Healer DPS is important that people think that we want Healers to BE DPS.

The reason that they are intended to DPS (whether Yoshi likes it or not) are:
- lax raid wide damage output from fights
- lack of healer distractions
- no utility for healers that they can be doing between healing

This means that you have the choice to DPS or idle, and I don't think the game intends you to idle.

[Taika]

Healers ARE intended to DPS when they don't have to heal.

This is definitely true, if you look at the way the game is designed. The issue is, which I brought up in another thread on the topic, that there are two sides in this discussion. One of them thinks the jobs in this game are defined by how the jobs look like (their name, role name, assumed developer intention etc.), and these people argue that healers shouldn't be forced to DPS because it's not included in this extrinsic definition. The other side is looking at the how the jobs actually work: what abilities do they have, how the content is designed etc. And for the latter people it's obvious that healers should DPS, because that's simply the way the jobs and the game are.

There is no reasoning to be done between the two sides, because their arguments are based on completely different things (one can of course estimate and argue about which starting point makes more sense when we are talking about playing the jobs).

[Feyona]

Having standards is not bullying, you have no middle ground.

No people are toxic towards others because they enjoy having power over others sometimes and because some people like to pick on the weak. Some people are afraid to have a different opinion or refuse the group dictates because they will be cast out. It doesnt mean they enjoy having to behave someone else's way. Ive seen lots of people being bullied on this game simply because the person is in a weak position. In groups all members needs should be considered if you are truly thinking about everone else and not just YOUR clear and to be done YOUR way.

[Feyona]

This is definitely true, if you look at the way the game is designed. The issue is, which I brought up in another thread on the topic, that there are two sides in this discussion. One of them thinks the jobs in this game are defined by how the jobs look like (their name, role name, assumed developer intention etc.), and these people argue that healers shouldn't be forced to DPS because it's not included in this extrinsic definition.

There is no reasoning to be done between the two sides, because their arguments are based on completely different things (one can of course estimate and argue about which starting point makes more sense when we are talking about playing the jobs).

It is not defined by the label it is defined by what you are able to do in the circumstances. Priority is healing, priority is not both. You heal first as the situation allows, it should not be expected in all cases

[Judge_Xero]

Yes and theres always a shortage of good tanks, its not an easy role it carries alot of pressure to do correctly as you must know. The game just doesnt need to have extreme pressure put on people, as content is clearable without it.

It's true, so what I propose to alleviate that pressure is that tanks, once they have the required enmity lead should be allowed to sit idle to either wait for any potential tank swaps, as well as to wait for any incoming tank busters so that they don't miss having mitigation up.