Cleric Stance Discussion - Is it needed?

[kalasnikov]

Casual elitists do not want cleric stance to disturb their afk netflix "privilige".

[ZioSerpe]

I believe a good way to make people less scared of using CS would be to turn the cooldown around, instead of having a 5 seconds cooldown when you turn it on have it when you turn it off, this way people would be less scared of screwing up

[Jkap_Goat]

I love love love CS, I love the way it's made in this game, it's makes everything challenging. That's what CS is supposed to do as Yoshi P said himself that healers are supposed to just heal, that's what we are.

[Lambdafish]

Considering that healer DPS is completely left out of the equation of fights is what makes it meta, not strategic.

I think you are misquoting the developers on what is actually meant by "left out of equations". Healer DPS is left out when calculating the minimum viable output, which means this is the calculation for the least amount of effort that a DPS should put out in in order to clear. As a team, these numbers can be spread out to healers and tanks when opportunity or necessity arises, which in raid content (especially with a low ilvl) will happen quite a lot. The reason for this is that if they did include calculations for healer DPS it would put too much stress on DPS and tanks when healers don't DPS, and this is exactly how Gordias was designed.

Basically, you can use the "healers aren't counted in equations" argument only if you intend to meet the standard of minimum viable output, and not exceed that.

[Taika]

Because this skill exist for all healing type jobs there is nothing for those who enjoy pure support gameplay.

It's not because Cleric Stance as a skill exists, it's because there isn't enough healing or supporting to do for healers in any content of the game to make pure support / healing a valid play style.

I think you are misquoting the developers on what is actually meant by "left out of equations". Healer DPS is left out when calculating the minimum viable output, which means this is the calculation for the least amount of effort that a DPS should put out in in order to clear[...]

Basically, you can use the "healers aren't counted in equations" argument only if you intend to meet the standard of minimum viable output, and not exceed that.

Furthermore, the developer calculations aren't based on item level existing when this content is added to the game. So it's like saying people shouldn't do this content when it's released because that's not the developers intention (in other words, a really bad argument). It is literally impossible to beat this content without healer DPS when it's first released, and without healer DPS it will be impossible for great majority of players for a long time after that, since the DPS calculated for DDs by the developers' intention is that high (and reaching that as a DD is much more demanding than healing and DPSing the same content at mediocre level).

[Zojha]

[...] since the DPS calculated for DDs by the developers' intention is that high

I can only repeat: 85-90% of their theoretical, calculated potential with the respective assumed item level.

For tanks, they also literally only take autoattacks and the 1-2-3 (the basic combo to keep hate) into account. It's such a gross double standard between the roles, it's not even funny.

[Hyperia]

I believe a good way to make people less scared of using CS would be to turn the cooldown around, instead of having a 5 seconds cooldown when you turn it on have it when you turn it off, this way people would be less scared of screwing up

I've been asking for this for years. There is a long trail of dead tanks and dps behind my use of cleric when it gets turned back on the moment I try to turn it off.

[Ghastly]

I hope they remove cleric stance (and also dps stance on tank). They're superficial "complexities"
If it stays that's fine but removing cleric stance would actually make more healers try to use their dps skills more often which is a good thing in the end.

[Shiro--Tsubasa]

It's not because Cleric Stance as a skill exists, it's because there isn't enough healing or supporting to do for healers in any content of the game to make pure support / healing a valid play style.

There are other ways to support outside of healing and dealing damage. Like I mentioned in part of the comment that you didn't add to the quote. Buffs! These little things are amazing in that if given the chance, a healer/support could improve your party members potential. ie. something like what I mentioned previously, a channeled buff (a buff only applied while being channeled) on a target that can increase mitigation or damage dealt based on targets role it could be something like the brave/faith spells from other FF games. The reason support based filler skills don't exist is because the CS skill exist.

[Taika]

There are other ways to support outside of healing and dealing damage. Like I mentioned in part of the comment that you didn't add to the quote[...] The reason support based filler skills don't exist is because the CS skill exist.

I was commenting on the current state of game, not possible design changes. It's only your speculation that they don't exist because Cleric Stance does. And I think it's quite far-fetched, as the two are not mutually exclusive. I for one would love to see more buffs and debuffs for healer jobs, but I don't think they should exclude being able to contribute to DPS as well (if the healer is skilled enough to do so). I really enjoyed the skill sets of Scholar and Red Mage in FFXI, for example.