What is it with some tanks, healers, and dps?

[AmalonStar]

Ok now I've read a bunch of the comments after waking up, with this issue of the amount of players that play very poorly it is caused by a combination of a few things I think.


1) Potd- yes its true that bad players existed before this but it certainly doesn't help the issue, new players using this to lv so they can get up to higher lv content faster they get all these skills and abilities thrown at them and have no idea how to use them let alone set up a efficient hot bar set up.

2) Duty Finder- as convenient as this is it doesn't encourage ppl to learn their jobs or to play better simply because they can get into what ever duty they want with it, yes there is the kick option but alot of ppl won't kick a healer or a tank because sometimes the wait time to get a replacement can take forever. So most ppl will just try to get through the content and finish that run.

3) Solo content- There is too much content for soloing and they can play how they want so when they do have to do group content where there are certain expectations everyone is expected to meet at a minimum level of skill some of these player are not able to meet them. No this isn't an elitist point of view on this I actually expect anyone I play with to make some mistakes just because its human to make mistakes and just have an off day, elitists tend to expect that you don't make a single mistake and if you do they go off on you about it.


There are probably more factors that contribute to poor players. I come from ff XI we had no duty finder finder on there and you were expected to know the basic's of your job, if you developed a bad reputation for not doing what was expected of the job you were playing or would go afk alot while in parties or other things like that you would have trouble finding a party to join because unless you were the only one seeking a party on that job they would go to the next person. You could only solo so far into the game before you would run out of mobs you could solo and get exp from, at around lv 10-13 you could get into your first leveling party, I usually solo'd up to lv 20 to avoid an area I referred to as 'the dooms' because that was where ppl were still learning their jobs and I found I could lv faster soloing than in a party with the down time due to wipes.

I've heard similar stories like this from other ppl from other games too. Like I'm good and like to learn each job I play properly so I'm not just dead weight but have never been an elitist, on ff XI we had elitist types on there too and like I said they expect ppl to play to the maximum potential your selected job can and are the ones with those third party apps that calculates each players dmg and you get kicked if you don't have extremely high dps.

[Laerune]

Aside from the players who do not want to learn their role and class, the game itself does not teach you alot about playing your class/role. When leveling, you do not need to use damage/healing/defensive buffs, because the leveling content does not require them. When players play with a playstyle where certain skills are not required, then its no suprise that they repeat what they were doing at low level at endgame.

The sad part is even if SE improves these issues a big part still relies on the players motivation to want to improve. You can lead a horse to water (but you can't make him/it drink).

[Ama_Hamada]

I mean, it's your experience vs. mine in the instance that I am going to mention here.. However the skill level of players has definitely significantly decreased.
At least from my experience. I won't discount your opinion though, as this is rather subjective and nearly impossible to physically measure.
I am not saying that skill level was always better though - as we did see this back when Bluefog FATE spam was a thing.. However there was a time between this where the skill level of players seemed generally higher to me - and this was after they buffed Dungeon EXP and before the release of PotD.

There are definitely people that take longer to learn content than others, and there always has been. There is no argument there.. However we aren't specifically talking about first timers or people that are new to the dungeon - many of the people I have personally run into that don't pull their own weight, have multiple classes levelled and have done the duty quite a number of times. There seems to be a bit of a trend going on, where people jump into a dungeon with no clue how to use their skills on mobs that survive longer than 10 seconds. I would point the blame on PotD but I don't think the whole system is to blame.

This brings me back to my argument on my last post.
I am a big fan of having your entire set of skills at your disposal to figure out how to play your class - however the learning medium isn't there.
I argue that PotD is a great system as it allows people explore their class at end game.. However the issue with it is that the content is just far too faceroll and requires a similar thought process to that of a Bluefog FATE. The difficulty is just far too easy. Experience aside, AK and WP at iLvl sync is still much "harder" than PotD. I can say that much for certain.

I agree with this. I been seeing more and more gear level dodging (why I been posting a few threads on making stricter guidelines on entry for DF) I just had a DF with someone with 49 rings in darkness. People do not know how to AoE, people do not know how to tank, People do not even know how to basic function as a healer in dun despite having max gear (270 all slots and 275 relic) It is really getting old.

Also the people that usually have skill problems to pass the content are usually people that have all jobs locked out cept one being 15 that is required for w/e they have at 60.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I agree with this. I been seeing more and more gear level dodging (why I been posting a few threads on making stricter guidelines on entry for DF) I just had a DF with someone with 49 rings in darkness. People do not know how to AoE, people do not know how to tank, People do not even know how to basic function as a healer in dun despite having max gear (270 all slots and 275 relic) It is really getting old.

Also the people that usually have skill problems to pass the content are usually people that have all jobs locked out cept one being 15 that is required for w/e they have at 60.

To be fair, PotD only exasperated an already existing problem. The game is simply too damn easy at lower levels. What incentives do new players really have to upgrade gear when they can still queue into content? I frequently criticise Xelphatol and GGH for this precise reason. ilvl 210 was outdated over a year ago yet it's considered relevant for 3.4? Unless people have preexisting aspirations for Savage or EX Primals, they simply aren't going to focus on gear when the game itself doesn't give them a reason to. It's one of my biggest concerns when the devs keep going on about closing the skill gap. You can't keep making content easier lest you bore everyone else. Now I want to clarify, you cannot go too far in the opposite direction or we end up with Gordias. But content should push players to think "hmm, maybe I need some better gear" or "why aren't these abilities as strong anymore?" That's how you get better. Sadly, the game doesn't.

[Ririta]

Well... I admit... there is a possibility the game is leveling people a tad too fast... before they really know or understand how to play their characters...

From what I understand the game did not used to be this easy. I've talked with a couple people in my FC and they've said there was no way in hell they could have gone up through the levels as fast as I did.

Back then dungeons were much harder than today, holding aggro was harder so even DPS was usually aware of what that little bar next to their name meant, trash mobs hit harder, jobs didn't have the countless buffs that accumultated through the years, etc.

This is the problem with increasing level caps, it will be even worse as the level cap increases again and mid levels are even faster or, heavens forbid, we get jump potions.

[matteoxyz]

Are you sure you're not exaggerating a bit?

I only occasionally encounter any of these issues. The vast majority of PUGs I join are competent, swift and the players courteous.

[Aeeninwen_Taldel]

When I lose aggro, it's basically because my gear isn't as good as it should. As I'm still lowish level, and haven't actually hit 60 yet on any class. For the most part, people are understanding and give me tips to help try to keep aggro. For the most part, I can hold it fairly decently, but there's some cases where it's proven more difficult that it should be. In the end, it is what it is.

[Adire]

I agree with this. I been seeing more and more gear level dodging (why I been posting a few threads on making stricter guidelines on entry for DF) I just had a DF with someone with 49 rings in darkness.

I had a summoner in a Hullbreaker Hard Mode run the other day with an ilvl 55 weapon. I did more damage than them as a PLD. While in Shield Oath. My tolerance is running out, I'm going to start showing people the back of the queue line.

Are you sure you're not exaggerating a bit?

I only occasionally encounter any of these issues. The vast majority of PUGs I join are competent, swift and the players courteous.

I'd have to guess that you're an unusual case. There's a reason PUGs have a bad reputation in pretty much every game. I have worse luck with them in this game than any other one I've played.

[Faliandra]

Are you sure you're not exaggerating a bit?

I only occasionally encounter any of these issues. The vast majority of PUGs I join are competent, swift and the players courteous.

You're on Tonberry according to your info. Thats a japanese Datacenter, I believe the vast majority in here is from NA/EU datacenter.
We already know how JP handles things differently.

[Falmer]

These type of threads remind me of...................... lol