As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

SCH literally has more skills that are DoT focused than they do shield related heals. You are correct that SCH does its healing through shields, but it is also a pet healer, and a DoT based DPS as a secondary. You can't pick and choose traits of a job and ignore the rest, SCH is more than 4 abilities on your hotbar.

I believe I have explained my philosophy on healer DPS, and have defended your raid ethic on several occasions, but to say that DPS isn't part of SCHs identity is as stupid as saying it isn't part of WARs identity (Fell cleave is for progression right?).

Well im a healer first and foremost so if people need healing i will heal and ignore the dps ones as that is my priority. Sch is not a dps class. And its doubtful that it will be made into one because thats what summoner is for

[Lambdafish]

Well im a healer first and foremost so if people need healing i will heal and ignore the dps ones as that is my priority. Sch is not a dps class. And its doubtful that it will be made into one because thats what summoner is for

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Then you (as a WHM) shouldn't be DPSing, the SCH should. That is the pro DPS argument in raid, one person handles healing, one person DPSes and heals when they need to. If you find yourself not healing in certain phases though, then you DPS.

This isn't a black and white conversation, and is completely different in raiding than dungeons. Having two healers means that optimal play has one healer primarily healing, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't DPS when they can, only that they won't get many opportunities too.

SCH is suited as the DPS-Healer like WAR is the DPS-Tank, and they have so many skills that support them in this design space, rouse, bane, DoTs, shadowflare, 3 single target attacks, and energy drain, most of which compliment them as a healer, as they deal damage while the faily or player heals. That is how the job is designed whether you like it or not, and content is designed to allow them to be played that way.

Edit: I should add to the above is that if both Healers are 100% healing, then you WILL be overhealing and wasting time and MP, the exception being lots of deaths or a healing check.

[Feyona]

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SCH is suited as the DPS-Healer like WAR is the DPS-Tank, and they have so many skills that support them in this design space, rouse, bane, DoTs, shadowflare, 3 single target attacks, and energy drain, most of which compliment them as a healer, as they deal damage while the faily or player heals. That is how the job is designed whether you like it or not, and content is designed to allow them to be played that way.

Edit: I should add to the above is that if both Healers are 100% healing, then you WILL be overhealing and wasting time and MP, the exception being lots of deaths or a healing check.

Whether you like it or not scholar is a healer, not a dps. Tanks dpsing is not as different as healing is to dps. Its a completely different skill set for a healer to change to dps. I do so hope SE gives scholar their identity back as a healer as otherwise we only have 2 healing classes to choose from.

[Neela]

Whether you like it or not scholar is a healer, not a dps. Tanks dpsing is not as different as healing is to dps. Its a completely different skill set for a healer to change to dps. I do so hope SE gives scholar their identity back as a healer as otherwise we only have 2 healing classes to choose from.

well... sch was the only healer I got known as dps-hybrid from the very beginning because their dps-skills and support skills come hand in hand. Setting up DoTs in cleric while Lillys autoheals gave you a fair time window to do so. switching back on heavy impact with single & aoe insta heals or to re/precast shield(s) - while DoTs continue to tick with cleric-stat-dmg. schs are (at least for me) the most flexibel ones if we talk about stance-dancing imo... actually its their identity. dunno which other identity you are talking about if we just focus on schs here....

whm feels different for me although I could set up dots as well... but if I dps as whm its mostly aoe dmg in mobs (holy, wind III or asizes) or stone-burst-dmg. there is just bene and/or preset-regs for covering your dps time window - you have to be more flexibel and way faster in stance dancing if it comes to unexpected dmg-impact while you are in cleric.

similar to asts but they have skills which make your reactions even easier to compensate - like synergy, light speed or the insta stance-casts.


I think if we talk about off-heal-dps all 3 cls can burst some fair amount of dmg, if we talk about main-heal-dps - sch/asts got some minor advantages compared to whm in stance dance... but well in the end it doesn't matter which cls you play – u have to be confident situational finding your own time-window to dps ^^

[Feyona]

well... sch was the only healer I got known as dps-hybrid from the very beginning because their dps-skills and support skills come hand in hand.


I think if we talk about off-heal-dps all 3 cls can burst some fair amount of dmg, if we talk about main-heal-dps - sch/asts got some minor advantages compared to whm in stance dance... but well in the end it doesn't matter which cls you play – u have to be confident situational finding your own time-window to dps ^^

Im not sure otherwise wouldnt it be a dps role? After all support classes are dps. And if that was the case why has it got as much healing potency as the other 2 healers? Why does SE want it to stay balanced as a healer rather than a dps? This opinion really comes from the community that sch is more dps.Besides the fact that it has far more abilities than any other class to use at once doesnt feel 'right'

[Neela]

This opinion really comes from the community that sch is more dps.

actually I would second this if we would talk about general healer dps. -
but for sch even their first cls is way more related to dots and dps
than whm first cls. so not sure bout that if we just focus on sch here.

[Feyona]

actually I would second this if we would talk about general healer dps. -
but for sch even their first cls is way more related to dots and dps
than whm first cls. so not sure bout that if we just focus on sch here.

Maybe it wasnt given alot of thought as to how it would be used as far as Im aware SE were surpised by healer dps , it just made sense for arcanist to brance out into 2 roles, one healer and the other dps. While I dont profess to know the intention. It being made into 2 dps doesnt make sense. As one is definitely a healer build, and the other is definitely dps and the dps skills shared

[Lambdafish]

Whether you like it or not scholar is a healer, not a dps. Tanks dpsing is not as different as healing is to dps. Its a completely different skill set for a healer to change to dps. I do so hope SE gives scholar their identity back as a healer as otherwise we only have 2 healing classes to choose from.

I never ever said that Scholar was a DPS. Maybe next time you want a ballad, the BRD should ignore you because their job is to DPS not support your MP, maybe NIN should stop using goad, smokescreen, and shadewalker, maybe WAR should stop using storms eye because that increases DPS not enmity. Jobs have more responsibility than that little nameplate would have you believe and there is more depth to the role than you choose to experience. This would be fine in a single player game, but you have a responsibility to the 7 other people in your party to at least attempt to fully understand your job, and you CHOOSE not to. I can forgive struggling to play the role well, I can understand being unable to DPS because it is too difficult, but I cannot forgive choosing not to because "scholar is a healer, not a dps.".

The fact that I even went through and told you how you can split healing and DPS in raid (if you were struggling), and gave you advice on how to easily manage the two responsibilities feels wasted considering you won't even attempt it.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

Maybe next time you want a ballad, the BRD should ignore you because their job is to DPS not support your MP, maybe NIN should stop using goad, smokescreen, and shadewalker, maybe WAR should stop using storms eye because that increases DPS not enmity.

Oh, look. Another poor comparison! Comparing a move you toggle every now and then that is essentially part of the DPS aspect of a DPS job, or just something you click for free off GCD, or a stance that doesn't really hinder you all too much vs Cleric Stance which hinders you quite a bit and comparing it to constantly doing DPS over and over and over until the monster is dead. Even if you compare that your DPS gets nerfed with BRD, it still isn't anywhere near as bad as healer literally swapping their INT and MND and a healer having to keep everyone alive whilst managing this mechanic.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone whine about a NIN not using Shadewalker because most people do not care or cannot notice if they have it ready or not.

[Lambdafish]

Oh, look. Another poor comparison!

Oh look, another post that is devoid of common sense or prior reading of anything that I have said on the subject (it only takes looking back a page or two).

Comparing a move you toggle every now and then that is essentially part of the DPS aspect of a DPS job, or just something you click for free off GCD, or a stance that doesn't really hinder you all too much vs Cleric Stance which hinders you quite a bit and comparing it to constantly doing DPS over and over and over until the monster is dead. Even if you compare that your DPS gets nerfed with BRD, it still isn't anywhere near as bad as healer literally swapping their INT and MND and a healer having to keep everyone alive whilst managing this mechanic.

Actually, it is worse for BRD. Cleric stance's drawbacks can be mitigated through proper preparation: using adlo, then rouse, swapping into cleric stance, throwing up DoTs and shadowflare, then going back out of cleric stance is good DPS for not much healing loss, and you would only ever do this if the healing requirement is low, meaning nothing at all is lost. The difference is that there is a cap on how much healing should be done. If everyones HP is full then any extra healing is a waste. There is no cap on DPS meaning that any amount of time spent playing paeon or ballad is a DPS loss for the BRD, and there is no mitigation for this at all.

Let me ask you, if healer DPS and cleric stance should not exist, then A) what the hell are you doing when you don't need to heal? and B) What would you change the system to, because removing it would make healers both overpowered, and more dull to play for many people who are serious about the role.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone whine about a NIN not using Shadewalker because most people do not care or cannot notice if they have it ready or not.

I don't think I've ever seen a NIN protest when asked to use shadewalker, or goad. It seems to be only healers that complain when asked to use their full toolkit (oh, except for BRDs that refuse to sing, but they get the same lecture, and honestly are just bad players)