To be quite honest, I think some of you are working on the agenda that PotD took away from some of the playerbase of dungeons, and you'd like for that to be alleviated in some form. The issues you all are saying it created or exacerbated were around long before PotD was a thing. And I'll dare say that it hasn't gotten worse. I've ran some of the Heavensward dungeons and it appears most know the mechanics. Some better than I do (simply because its my first time in some of those dungeons after coming back with 2 years of a break).

I did level 100 content in Everquest about 2 years ago. EQ is well known for not being very forgiving if you don't know exactly what you are doing. Even then, even still we had players on these trial dungeons not play their roles properly. When I was running them with a buddy of mine, if he wasn't tanking, and I wasn't healing. We knew the run was going to be a bit interesting. And that was part of the reason we left. We got pigeonholed into two roles because we couldn't find anyone good enough to allow us to play support or dps.

WoW:Legion was similar. But not as bad. But still noticeable. You run a random heroic and you just sometimes get someone in a role that causes the group some issues. They've had to do 90 to 100 levels of dungeons and grinding to get where they are. And there they are.. not knowing a damn thing to what they are supposed to do.

The system cannot, will never teach a player their class, job, or role. I mean the little mission thing in front of every dungeon helps by telling players to throw their shield at stuff. But that begs the question if they needed the game to tell them specifically when to use a skill, how competent can you expect them to be? You all are confusing practice (as we know practice makes perfect) with raw talent. You are getting nostalgic to a time when some dungeon used to be hard for you because you didn't have the practice.

But I'm willing to wager you all could have handled hardmode HW dungeons in 2014 in 2.0 back when AK/WP were the only two dungeons. A few wipes learning something new sure. But you'd get it. Probably even before you ran out of time on the duty. There are some players that just cannot do that. Making them take 5 years to get from 1-60 won't help. I know this, I've seen someone damn near take that long to reach max level in a game. They don't play their role well at all.

Then you have laziness. You can't help that either. Well you can, you avoid the PUG's and run with friends. Many of us do this already. I normally run with a buddy or two so when we run into a detrimental player, we just remove them. Newbies we help, I like the newbies, especially the ones willing to learn. I feel bad for the ones who want to learn and just can't. But even after everything I've said above.. these players actually aren't that common in the queues.

A few pages back, I explained that those players usually avoid queuing for things. Its only things like Praetorium and The Vault normal that you'll see them. Well they have to go there to finish the story. IMO that's where the mistake is. You're putting solo oriented players with groupers. That shouldn't be done. The skill and talent just isn't there. And never will be. Its for this reason I don't pressure my friend (the one who took years in EQ to get to a decent level) to play FFXIV.

That'd be a horrible experience for them. They'd have to do several dungeons and primal normal fights as well as MSQ. And they'd likely want to play a Warrior for the RP. Instead I leave them playing the game they enjoy playing. They've been playing it a little over a year and haven't hit max level yet. Thankfully in ESO they don't have to do the dungeons. They can solo to their hearts content.

The real solution is to divorce solo and group content. Yes we'll still have players who don't know their roles slip through. But at least it will get to a point where you won't see them in higher stuff because they cannot complete the lower stuff. Let the content itself filter them. Because lets face it. The 1-59 game, slow or fast. Dungeon or not. Won't teach you what you need to do at 60. Even veteran players or decent players like us have that issue. All job rotations and how you apply them change drastically from 49 to 50 and 59 to 60.

In many ways the game starts at 60. How fast or slow you got there doesn't matter.