Split SCH and SMN already! The poblems are just going to keep increasing!!!

[Rhindas]

Well let's test this. Resummoning Eos with every gear change:

With 1479 MND, over 20 heals Eos heals for roughly 2700. When I take my accessories off my MND is 1119 and she heals for roughly 1900. Now let's test if it's item level related. If I put my Bard's accessories on, which will put my item level back up to what it was on SCH's normal gear, but keep my MND at 1119, she heals for roughly 1900.

Now let's test the 35 points from bonus. Again, she heals roughly 2700 with normal gear. With normal gear and -35 MND she heals for roughly 2650. 35 points is not a big difference for the faerie. Let's test INT. If I put those 35 points into INT, there is no discernable change. If I put my caster accessories on, which will change my INT from 241 to 577 (with MND being 1119), she heals for roughly 1900.

It is absolutely MND based, but the 35 bonus points are negligible. Now granted crits and healing over time will eventually start to add up healing potency but it's not going to make or break you if you forgot to switch your INT and MND over when changing between SCH and SMN.

[Gemina]

A friend of mine and I did the math awhile back. Being full int in scholar only shaves off roughly 50ish HP per heal from you and it doesn't affect eos/selene at all since they scale with gear and not mind, so constantly switching back and forth is really just and OCD thing more than necessity. We also tested it ourselves. It was back in 2.x so the drop off may be closer to 75ish but that's still negligible.

The reduction to heal potency by going full INT on SCH is not the problem. A SCH who allocates all points to mind not only increases their healing potency, it also ramps up their offensive potency because of Cleric Stance. Cleric stance swaps MND and INT point for point, so if all those point are allocated towards INT, both your heals and your offensive magicks are effectively gimped.

Two other things to consider: The first are your adlo crits. The stronger your heals are, the more your shields mitigate damage, and a strong adlo crit can pretty much negate a tank buster and/or keep your DPS window open for much longer. The second is SCH's are already lacking in healing potency. They have the lowest of all the healers, which is why they have their nigh infinite MP pool, so when you actually do have to heal, you want them to hit for as much as possible so you spend less gcds bringing players back to a safe HP levels.

There's no getting around the point swapping SCH/SMN currently have to do if you want to play these jobs to their fullest potential.

[Kaethra]

Those of you sensationalizing the issue are NOT helping the cause. I distinctly remember leveling a Scholar, without decent gear back when AOEs would knock out the fairy. I was still able to complete Cutter's Cry, Auram Vale, and a few others where White Mages had a distinct advantage.

I'm not saying there isn't any issues. But you all are not going to be taken seriously with 'the world is falling' arguments.

Yes, a cure needs to be available at 15 for Scholars.
Yes, a threat buff needs to be available at 30 for Paladins.
No, they don't make things impossible, maybe trickier, but it made you a better player for it.

Hell, every job suffers. Look at a Gladiator vs Paladin in Sastasha. Synced to under 20. That means the Gladiator gets all Gladiator abilities to that point and THREE cross class abilities from MANY classes. Paladin gets ONE and NO Job abilities. Same thing with every other Job vs Class. At the VERY least, the first Job ability should be available at level 1. You'll see this disparity come out in floors 1-20 in PotD as well.

I think you would find it hard pressed to find someone who disagrees with this. But if you say the job is broken under 30 or 40, you're wrong. And others are going to pick that apart and dismiss you entirely. Stay honest.

[Canadane]

I'm in the opposite camp, where I want to see more job splits on the same classes.

[Ririta]

This one is an arcanist just because I get both healer and caster at once. I no longer have the patiece to level alt jobs like I did in 2.0, pls pls pls don't take away the little pleasure that I still have in this game.

I am tried of having leeches at 40! I need it available at 15+ because of level sync.
I do not like the idea of needing to change my stat bonus points around.
I do not like how both jobs are books just because of an out dated system

These aren't problems at all.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

This one is an arcanist just because I get both healer and caster at once. I no longer have the patiece to level alt jobs like I did in 2.0, pls pls pls don't take away the little pleasure that I still have in this game. - snip

Agreed. If push comes to shove, I have a healer I can take into 60 content with friends. I'm not particularly good with it yet, lol, but it's available and all I have to do is gear it up. The bonus points don't really make a difference unless running raid content near minimum ilvl, where every point would count, But most of us are so over-geared the difference is pennies-worth.

I started lvling WHM and just sorta... stopped. I'm not a big fan of healing and having to push that through to 60 is just killing me. D:

Also it makes me laugh that SCHs are like "SMNs should have a different weapon!" and SMNs be like "SCHs should have the different weapon!" Dude, the lore supports both of them using books, so why should that change? :P Both sides seem fairly attached to the book aesthetic, doesn't seem fair to take that away from one of them.

[NaesakiAshwell]

Also it makes me laugh that SCHs are like "SMNs should have a different weapon!" and SMNs be like "SCHs should have the different weapon!" Dude, the lore supports both of them using books, so why should that change? :P Both sides seem fairly attached to the book aesthetic, doesn't seem fair to take that away from one of them.

I think all they'd need to do to make em more 'unique' would be to have it so SMN books are always referred to as a Grimoire and Scholar books referred to as Codex or something like that.

I mean technically White Mage and Black Mage both use staves, just of a different variety.

[CatStarPrime]

Yoshi already said they are probably removing the bonus stat points because new people don't even distribute them. Leeches, esuna and exalted detriment are all likely going to become one spell shared with all the healers.

Dwah?

I've been taken to task for being a Highlander Summoner, and not a Duskwight, because apparently, the 2-3 points difference in racial Intelligence means, I'm crippling my DPS and my party. And people aren't even -?

Oy.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Two other things to consider: The first are your adlo crits. The stronger your heals are, the more your shields mitigate damage, and a strong adlo crit can pretty much negate a tank buster and/or keep your DPS window open for much longer. The second is SCH's are already lacking in healing potency. They have the lowest of all the healers, which is why they have their nigh infinite MP pool, so when you actually do have to heal, you want them to hit for as much as possible so you spend less gcds bringing players back to a safe HP levels.

There's no getting around the point swapping SCH/SMN currently have to do if you want to play these jobs to their fullest potential.

This is for the crazy min/max players. How many people in this game actually do that. Your points are valid yes, but it doesn't change the fact that all 35 points in int on sch isn't game changing. I play smn and sch both and the points are needed more in smn than sch. The fairy scales more off gear than mind so healing isn't an issiue(I've solo healed A11 normal when it first came out).

[DaikiKiyoshi]

This one is an arcanist just because I get both healer and caster at once. I no longer have the patiece to level alt jobs like I did in 2.0, pls pls pls don't take away the little pleasure that I still have in this game.

I'm in the opposite camp, where I want to see more job splits on the same classes.

Totally agree with these two. I love how SMN and SCH both branch off of the same class and I wish we would see more of this. Playing SCH feels amazing because it feels like a hybrid, and it really is an awesome example of what a Support class/job could be like for this game. IMO it's the closest thing we have right now.