Harassing Healers - or: Please allow Parsers

[Misutoraru]

sorry no parser unless it is PF exclusive
like many ppl say it is a tool that could improve player skill
but it is also a tool that could use in a dmg way
I came from an MMO where it been using as a toxic damaging tool, hurting the community
in this case I see the harm it done out weight the good
there are no points making thread about parser too, one side could never convince the other side

as for healer doing dmg
yes, i do dmg when I have confidence in my party and when I m comfortable with doing dmg
that's the key, doing dmg as a healer is situational, especially in DF
but 99.9% of healer dmg thread have a pre-judge that the healer is plain lazy

[Taika]

but 99.9% of healer dmg thread have a pre-judge that the healer is plain lazy

This isn't true. People are saying that healers who refuse to DPS when they could (when the situation would allow them to) are lazy. There's a big difference there. No one is arguing (at least here on the forums, although I've read messages about people experience it in dungeons, while I've personally never seen that happen), that healers should be required to DPS while they're actually busy with healing and raising (and while them being busy is not a question of just very ineffective play, such as keeping themselves "busy" by doing nothing but spamming Cure 1 on tank).

[BigRed5392]

When it comes to healers dpsing topic on this forums. There is rarely any asking, it's just DPS or go straight to insulting. Or bring up a story about the worst possible example of a person and label every healer that doesn't DPS as such. But then after that, it's claims of trying to make the person a better player. That is a terrible way to make someone better. You don't make them feel terrible, and labeling them as a horrible person and then tell them you're trying to help.

ya i agree with this. I am not fond of harassment i see in the NA community. People come off pretentious and vindictive. "you don't play how i require you to play, so im going to grief you till you learn" that is basic abuse. Don't matter if it verbal or physical, punishing players under the guise of help is basic abuse.
People did that to my g/f, and it just stressed her out.

[BigRed5392]

snip

expect, that is arbitrary because the game in no way states, a healer MUST dps. even hon stated you CAN not MUST. And yoshi stated healer damage is not taken into account when making any and all content.

I've seen healers choosing to dps over healing, then blaming the tank for dying (tank used cd properly). Most healer dps so much they leave tank to go under 50% hp.

sorry but a healer focusing on healing isn't lazy. A healer being afk not doing a dam thing is lazy.

Sorry but you guys can't make up rules on the fly and expect people to follow them.

[Ama_Hamada]

Sorry i didn't convey what I meant well. I felt her group was griefing her, she did not. She was upset at her mistakes, I was upset at the group. I hope that clarifies what i was saying about it.

it did look like griefing to me because both healers were not busy, it was more then the "not rezzing" it was lack of communication. Her group was silent, and raid was silent. No one threw her a bone, all the communication was just her apologizing for mistakes, and getting silence back.

She was upset at her mistakes, not over the group.

Both healers? What does she play? There is rare cases where people will not raise grief if they are not doing enough dps or something. Regardless are you in my data center? I have no issues talking as I play, that's another thing, a lot of people are not good at that. So are we on same data center and play times?

expect, that is arbitrary because the game in no way states, a healer MUST dps. even hon stated you CAN not MUST. And yoshi stated healer damage is not taken into account when making any and all content.

I've seen healers choosing to dps over healing, then blaming the tank for dying (tank used cd properly). Most healer dps so much they leave tank to go under 50% hp.

sorry but a healer focusing on healing isn't lazy. A healer being afk not doing a dam thing is lazy.

Sorry but you guys can't make up rules on the fly and expect people to follow them.

No, must dps? hell no.

I dps when I am able, this means if the tank is a mp sponge or I need to carry other parties in "raids" (like dun seems people have issues calling places like that raids) I will not DPS because I can't, no room to do so. Always casting.. if always casting means heals or mass raises well then it is the others fault that stand in bad or whatever that I can't dps now isn't it?

Also thinking letting the tank go under 50% is an issue... if it is something say expert or heck lore farm in library, it is not an issue, and AST/WHM that want to dps lets tank hit low levels so they can be healed by abilities to make more room for DPS. For SCH though it depends, because we use stacks for our dps and heavy healing. My goal is to cast my 3 dots and bane. What I do after depends on the tank HP. If it is super low I use my stacks to heal them, if not ill use other aoes then heal them with normal spells. You really don't want to let people get super low as SCH though due to how we have stacks for our heavy healing. Then there are other times pet can heal everything so SCH stays in cleric permanently.

I can't tell you who is in the wrong but I will say this, simply "tank used cd properly" is not enough, was it TIMED?!?! well? i/e popping it when there is predictable heavy damage incoming?

[LadyAveria]

expect, that is arbitrary because the game in no way states, a healer MUST dps. even hon stated you CAN not MUST. And yoshi stated healer damage is not taken into account when making any and all content.

Well there you go, Yoshi said I don't have to DPS if I don't wanna, me DPSing when there is a window is me being nice ;D Case closed hahaha

[Zojha]

When it comes to healers dpsing topic on this forums. There is rarely any asking [...]

And there shouldn't be - We're on the forums, this is not the place to kindly ask people to do something, this is the place to debate whether you should or should not do something on principle. And that's what happens for dozens of pages in these healer threads. They frequently go over 50 pages with nothing but repetition of the same arguments over and over and over...

Often for no reason - I have yet to see someone argue that you should priorize DPS over healing in times when healing is needed for example, but in spite of that, people still bring it as an argument against DPSing, only to have people frustratedly tell them that nobody is debating that in the first place. Over and over...

And because the debate is going on forever with neither side budging, insults happen. From both sides - People instantly jump to the words "Lazy" and "Elitist".

That said: In the game, I'm going to kindly ask and deal with whatever answer I'm given - regardless of whether that's a Healer just standing around, a Bard not playing songs, a BLM not using Enochian or a Ninja not using mudras, it's all the same: Suboptimal play. On the forums, I'm of the opinion that one shouldn't have to ask in the first place, it should be self-explanatory that one should at least try to use ones abilities to the best benefit of the group, whatever that might be in the current situation.

[Misutoraru]

This isn't true. People are saying that healers who refuse to DPS when they could (when the situation would allow them to) are lazy. There's a big difference there. No one is arguing (at least here on the forums, although I've read messages about people experience it in dungeons, while I've personally never seen that happen), that healers should be required to DPS while they're actually busy with healing and raising (and while them being busy is not a question of just very ineffective play, such as keeping themselves "busy" by doing nothing but spamming Cure 1 on tank).

ya, the issue is, healer CAN dps, not MUST,
if we all have such understanding, why are we still having these kind of thread flooding the forum, not only in Healer Role, but not General discussion?
Healer doing DPS it a bonus, like a good healer
just like DPS using their utility
in DF there are roles, clear role
doing what the role is doing the job
doing the job does not equal to good at the job
but the bottomline is in DF, as long as someone fulfilling the role, i say it is fine
then we have ridiculous thread like ice mage comparison

[Aquaslash]

Speaking from personal experience... This may get me banned from the forums, but I cannot stand by and idly watch.

I find that the default attitude for many people is to think that they're good enough, and that there's nowhere that needed to be improved. I used to think so too, until I began parsing my own performance. Boy, how wrong I was. Since then, I've refined the hell out of my playing style, to the point where my own damage output is now high enough that a dungeon roulette run where a healer DPSes or not makes next to no difference to me. Which is to say, I used to think healers should be required to DPS in roulettes. Now, I no longer think so, because the vast majority of other DPS I've run into that rip on the healer for lack of DPS should really be looking at their own performance first.

(To give you an idea of how my runs usually go, I'm probably one of the most aggressive White Mages you'd ever meet. But on average, my runs STILL go faster if I go as a Bard instead and end up with a healer that doesn't DPS or barely does so at all.)

I would say at the very minimum, a personal parser would go a long way towards improving the community, at least up to the standards that the Japanese playerbase expects of their fellow teammates. The toxicity already exists, parser or not. But at the very least, a personal parser would do more good than harm at this point, I'd think. One cannot improve themselves when they don't know exactly where they are in the first place.

Well said friend! It's far better for there to be a tool for you to see these things in smaller content, than to end up like I did and get kicked out of Gordias Savage pugs. Hell of a wake up call that was.

[Hyperia]

Let's be careful on how much more difficult we want healing to be. The last time we asked for difficult, we got Gordias. I'd rather that healing not get that difficult so if people want healing more involved, please offer examples so we don't end up with Gordias or WoW Cataclysm level of hard healing.